Amazon uses DMCA to restrict where you can buy e-books

[Lemurion]

I know this much. I was going to order a K2 on Tuesday night. Now I'm going to buy a Sony Reader.

[ghchinoy]

Originally Posted by tompe

I think that is the reason also and the reason only kindlepid is mentioned.

Good point, Tommy.

I was just told about this and am working my way through this thread... I guess no forthcoming IronPython UI!

[fugazied]

Nice, this thread has made Gizmodo and NOW the front page of Digg!
I hope the servers don't blow up! hi Diggers.

[Gafle]

Originally Posted by Alisa

Just because some Dems supported it doesn't mean all of them have to.

True Alisa but I'm not exactly seeing any of them flocking to rectify their mistake either. Considering the impressive history of abuse that this particular law has gained in its short existence - Amazon being just the latest of a long list - it should be clear to everybody the the DMCA is beneficial to nobody, except maybe a few lawyers.

[ghchinoy]

Originally Posted by Alexander Turcic

As some of you may already know, this week we received a DMCA take-down notice from Amazon requesting the removal of the tool kindlepid.py and instructions associated with it. Although we never hosted this tool (contrary to their claim), nor believe that this tool is used to remove technological measures (contrary to their claim), we decided, due to the vagueness of the DMCA law and our intention to remain in good relation with Amazon, to voluntarily follow their request and remove links and detailed instructions related to it.

Alexander,

Thanks for all your efforts here at mobileread!

Now here's a silly question - can I get a .prc of the take-down notice to put on my Kindle?

H

[wayrad]

Originally Posted by ghchinoy

Now here's a silly question - can I get a .prc of the take-down notice to put on my Kindle?

For that matter, I wish someone would design a t-shirt with the text (or maybe just the download URL) of kindlepid.py on the front...

[ghchinoy]

Originally Posted by wayrad

For that matter, I wish someone would design a t-shirt with the text (or maybe just the download URL) of kindlepid.py on the front...

Heh, that's easy enough to do. Now where's my CafePress account...

[dragonbone]

Originally Posted by ghchinoy

Heh, that's easy enough to do. Now where's my CafePress account...

Can you accept any pre-orders?

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by BuddyBoy

Some proponents of DRM will point out that we're not purchasing a book to be used on a future reader, but leasing it to be used on our current reader.

The notion of "software lease" was challenged in court in the US, and lost. The bottom line was: if you're not expected to return the product, it's purchased, not leased, and the seller can't put restrictions on how you use it.

Library ebooks are borrowed; you agree that they expire after a set amount of time. Books bought from Amazon, BoB, or FW are purchased, and the sellers are trying to insist that you can't read them in ways they don't approve of. They don't have that legal right, any more than a pbook store can say "you may not read this book on an airplane" or "you may not give this book to a friend when you're done with it" or "you must only read this book by natural sunlight."

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

The notion of "software lease" was challenged in court in the US, and lost. The bottom line was: if you're not expected to return the product, it's purchased, not leased, and the seller can't put restrictions on how you use it.

Can you give a cite to the cases? Thanks.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Can you give a cite to the cases? Thanks.

Single case specifically dealing with software, as far as I know.

Vernor vs Autodesk

Techdirt quick rundown: Court Says Reselling Software Is Okay

Arstechnica more detailed analysis: Court smacks Autodesk, affirms right to sell used software

Judge Jones decision, 21-pg PDF. Excerpt from page 10:
In comparing the transactions found to be sales in Wise with those that were not, the critical factor is whether the transferee kept the copy acquired from the copyright holder. When the film studios required that prints be returned, the court found no sale. When the studios did not require the transferee to return the prints, the court found a sale.

Background: US vs Wise

There's a tangle of other related cases about copyrighted material (films, books) sold as scrap for salvage, with the proviso that they not be resold as, well, books & movies, and the courts overturning that--you can't sell books for insulation and then sue if someone decides to read the pages.

[wayrad]

Originally Posted by ghchinoy

Heh, that's easy enough to do. Now where's my CafePress account...

And it needs a caption...may I suggest "What Amazon Doesn't Want You To Know"?

[ghchinoy]

Originally Posted by slayda

And this could be something as simple as changing the PID for your Kindle via Whispernet. Then unless you turn Whispernet on to "accept" the change, you have no way of reading any newly downloaded ebooks because they have a different PID. So when you turn on Wispernet, they "update" your firmware to a new, more crippled version.

I don't think Amazon can change the PID on the hardware, I believe this is the same reason why, if you deauthorize your Kindle and sell it to someone else, they get all the ebooks that remain on the device. Same thing with the iPhone/iPodTouch - that serial number's hard coded. (Until they change their their DRM scheme).

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[smokey]

[Offensive language removed by moderator]

[InlawBiker]

Originally Posted by ghchinoy

I don't think Amazon can change the PID on the hardware, I believe this is the same reason why, if you deauthorize your Kindle and sell it to someone else, they get all the ebooks that remain on the device. Same thing with the iPhone/iPodTouch - that serial number's hard coded. (Until they change their their DRM scheme).

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe you're correct. The PID is derived from your serial number using a specific algorithm. There is only one mathematical outcome (PID) that can be derived from the serial number.

At any rate, for every DRM there are multiple ways to break it. All that's needed is some ingenuity.

For example you don't even need your Kindle's PID to break DRM. Off the top of my head - Download and install Mobipocket Reader. It will gladly give you a PID. Now go buy Mobi books with it all day long, then run mobidedrm against the e-books. The resulting e-book will work on your Kindle because the DRM is stripped. This is done without ever having the Kindle's PID. Amazon should be worried about mobidedrm.py, not kindlepid.py.

I don't believe Amazon put much effort into their protection scheme because they were relying on the DMCA to protect them. Besides which, no amount of DRM engineering would have helped. It can always be reverse-engineered. On top of all THAT, I think the Amazon store stands pretty well on its own. It's easier just to buy Kindle books from them than to pirate, based on ease of use and low cost. The DRM isn't even necessary in my opinion, at this point it's just bullying.

As a side note, I believe the reason Amazon e-books remain on the device is that there's a specific clause in the DMCA regarding resale of books. While e-books are not transferable property, they are transferable if they're done so on the same device they were registered on.

If you look closely at Amazon's actions and methods, they have interpreted the DMCA closely and have been very strategic in how they've structured their business around the Kindle.