Google eBookStore Online Now

[ebookrights]

Originally Posted by JeremyR

Maybe. But they still let people take books from PG and sell them (for $9.99 no less).

How hard is it, really, to have something that checks PG, sees if a title is there, and disallows it being uploaded (or being charged for).

Especially as they say on their front page something like "Over 3 Million Free Books". Of course, 2 million out of those 3 Million are being sold, but hey, they should be free.

It's just like Amazon, they say they have all these free books, but in practice, most are being sold.

This maybe morally questionable (especially if the price is high), but legally acceptable. I wonder, if Google stops people from doing this, she may get served in the court.

Besides, judging by the quality of a few of the "free" materials, I have no problems paying for properly edited ebooks for a "reasonable" fee (more like $2-3).

[Snooty Baronet]

Originally Posted by phenomshel

I had high hopes for Google Books (the bookstore, I mean), in that I had hoped to be able to get things in ebook format that are not currently available

Me, too! What a colossal disappointment.

After spending years scanning billions of books, you'd think Google would offer a vastly larger inventory of out of print / offbeat ebooks. I've found a few unusual ebooks, but so far it's just not that different from what you can get at Kindle or other ebook-sellers.

[muckledug]

What Google is doing is riding roughshod over copyright law. Perhaps I should start punching people in the face when I feel like it and, if they try to get the Police involved, inform them that they haven't 'opted out' of my face-punching project.
There are many reasons why a book may be out of print, the assumption of publishing rights by Google is a moral travesty. The author is the default copyright owner NOT Google!

[ebookrights]

Originally Posted by muckledug

What Google is doing is riding roughshod over copyright law. Perhaps I should start punching people in the face when I feel like it and, if they try to get the Police involved, inform them that they haven't 'opted out' of my face-punching project.
There are many reasons why a book may be out of print, the assumption of publishing rights by Google is a moral travesty. The author is the default copyright owner NOT Google!

What if the approach is changed from opt-out to opt-in...?

[muckledug]

Originally Posted by ebookrights

What if the approach is changed from opt-out to opt-in...?

Yeah, it's called negotiating a contract - it's done in all the best countries.
Certainly nothing wrong with proposing a general contract to all publishers and inviting replies. The assumption that you can go ahead without approval is monstrous. YOU apply to the copyright holder for approval to publish - THEY don't have to apply to you to stop publication.

Davie.

[ebookrights]

Originally Posted by muckledug

Yeah, it's called negotiating a contract - it's done in all the best countries.
Certainly nothing wrong with proposing a general contract to all publishers and inviting replies. The assumption that you can go ahead without approval is monstrous. YOU apply to the copyright holder for approval to publish - THEY don't have to apply to you to stop publication.

Davie.

I guess that's why the settlement has taken so long. I wouldn't be surprised if the terms change from opt-out to opt-in before the settlement is approved.

[khalleron]

Originally Posted by JeremyR

Maybe. But they still let people take books from PG and sell them (for $9.99 no less).

How hard is it, really, to have something that checks PG, sees if a title is there, and disallows it being uploaded (or being charged for).

Especially as they say on their front page something like "Over 3 Million Free Books". Of course, 2 million out of those 3 Million are being sold, but hey, they should be free.

It's just like Amazon, they say they have all these free books, but in practice, most are being sold.

Actually, according to this article 2 of the 3 million are free. Yes, most of them have OCR errors, but I've been reading free Google Books since they launched, and I've paid for books elsewhere that were worse.

Now if the books you paid for are riddled with errors, then you have a right to complain. The free books, IMHO, come under the heading of 'gift horse.'

As for paying for PD books, I think most people learn after awhile.

[DavidI]

THREE POINTS

1. Amazon has announced a new web app
It looks like Google's entry into the ebook market has had one nice effect. Amazon has announced that in January they will be revealing a web app that allows viewing of their books with just a web browser. Personally I prefer the Kindle, but I could see where this would be useful for books with color images.

2. Google's bookstore sucks
I have to say I'm not impressed with the Google approach to ebooks. I won't buy a book that I can't store on my own device. I read on the plane. I also don't trust companies and feel safer with a physical copy. Additionally, I have enjoyed Google full view PD books but have noticed that sometimes the quality seems to be lacking. I much prefer the quality of Amazon ebooks compared to the PD books on Google. Plus, Amazon has worked through some issues that Google hasn't yet addressed, e.g. Collections (i.e. folders), inline dictionary support, etc. I just can't see myself buying much or any books from Google.

3. Google has one advantage
The only advantage Google has over their competitors is all those scanned books that are still in copyright but not in print. These are the only books I would be interested in buying from Google. However, I also believe that Google is violating copyright laws in trying to make these books available. I do think their solution sounds reasonable (a generous royalty is put into a fund that will pay authors). However, I don't think a corporation, publishers, or the court should impose this type of system. I believe that is the responisbility of Congress -- and not doing so is resulting in untold loss of our cultural heritage. These orphaned books should be made available.

[khalleron]

DavidI,

Addressing point number two - you can download most books as either an ePub or a PDF. The one's you can't are clearly labeled before you buy.

As to the quality/quantity issue - I have other places I can go for quality (although I've been unpleasantly surprised even there a time or two), but I do appreciate Google's 'quantity' approach. The fact that I can get a vast array of PD books that are not available anywhere else I think is quite valuable.

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by khalleron

DavidI,

Addressing point number two - you can download most books as either an ePub or a PDF. The one's you can't are clearly labeled before you buy.

As to the quality/quantity issue - I have other places I can go for quality (although I've been unpleasantly surprised even there a time or two), but I do appreciate Google's 'quantity' approach. The fact that I can get a vast array of PD books that are not available anywhere else I think is quite valuable.

As one data point, I purchased Kurt Vonnegut's "Cat's Cradle" for $5.03 (Inkmesh showed only one source with a lower price, B&N at $3.96; the others were 10-80% higher). It offers both PDF and ePub downloads, both with Adobe DRM.

Formatting is good, I have not seen any OCR artifacts, and it has both a linked TOC and NCX TOC. In addition to being able to read it on any ADE-enabled reader or app, I'm able to read it pleasantly with my Kindle's web browser, a feature unique to Google at this point (there's Ibis Reader, but it's not as usable and does not support DRM).

Obviously one book is not representative of the whole, but it is representative of the sort of value proposition I would be looking for.

[SCION]

Originally Posted by Bookworm_Girl

... I am surprised that many of the pay-books are scans only. ...

Shocked expresses my sentiment.

[The Terminator]

Originally Posted by Lilly

At least the rumor that we would not be able to buy to read on our ebook devices are put to rest! They are prominently advertising that they will work on Sony Readers and Nooks!

It says it will work with any reader that is based on adobe so my kobo should work too

[demingite]

Originally Posted by Catlady

I went ahead and gambled $10 to buy a book. I was able to click on "read on device" and had a choice of downloading pdf or epub--though actually I was able to download both. On my book at least (Phantom Lady by William Irish), there is no DRM. The epub file is just a poor, unproofed conversion from the pdf--unacceptable. The pdf is unreadable on my JBL--font is tiny and I can't adjust it sufficiently to make it readable. I've requested a refund.

I read somewhere on these forums that running an epub book through Calibre (epub to epub) can sometimes fix formatting issues.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by ebookrights

I guess that's why the settlement has taken so long. I wouldn't be surprised if the terms change from opt-out to opt-in before the settlement is approved.

Google's fighting to not have to do opt-in. They don't want to have to contact every author & publisher of the thousands, maybe millions, of out-of-print works they've scanned.

Scanning is easy & quick (relatively) and can be done in bulk; finding & contacting copyright owners is slow and separate and requires tracking progress individually for each title. Removing books by request is easy; getting permission before starting is hard.

And I think there's no way they're going to get the agreement signed off in its current opt-out status. Or if they did, it'd immediately get bumped to a higher court, because it really does directly clash with the basic system of how copyright works.

All that work of scanning out-of-print works will be (mostly) wasted (it'll help with search abilities, but it won't make them real money)... and if they want to change that, they'll need to turn their attentions to changing copyright law. Which I'm much in favor of; I'd love Google to start pushing for a coherent & useful orphan works policy, and establish standards for what counts as a reasonable search for copyright owners. Google has the resources to make that possible; I'd love to see them work *with* the EFF to get us better copyright laws and enforcement policies.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by demingite

I read somewhere on these forums that running an epub book through Calibre (epub to epub) can sometimes fix formatting issues.

The epub formatting seemed OK, it was the OCR that was horrible. I suppose I could have tried to run the .pdf version through Calibre and maybe gotten a better result. I'd have been willing to play around more if the price was less, but for $10, I didn't think I should have to fool with it.

It really soured me on Google's bookstore. I can't see buying from them again.