Performance compare eink vs tablet

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by webroot

Do you have any proof to back above statement, it doesn't look like selling ereader is more of non-profit, because all hardware they use is very entry level. If a powerful raspberry Pi can be offered for 35 USD then a kindle which less than half in specs should hover around same range assuming that they have added screen and plastic around. Also consider that raspberry may not be mass produced at the same scale.

That is because a Raspberry Pi does not include most of the components of an ereader

Funny that i have a tiny USB modem with ARM7 processor and 512MB of ram, double in power than a basic kindle. Keeping the cost down is good thing but it is not true Amazon is NOT making decent profit from it. You know in shopping mall near my place kobo reader was offered at about 32 USD where original price was approx 115 usd, they found no market for kobo reader and moved to kindle only, and I dont thing they sold last stock at loss.

Do you have any particular reason for thinking they did not sell them at a loss?

It is a rather common business tactic, to dump stock that costs more to warehouse than they will make on the profit margins.

Originally Posted by webroot

Was that from companies periodic balance sheet? Well I dont have any figure but I gave some logic. Btw this is out of my understanding if Amazon can make profit from both, then why they would give away kindle and rely on eBook sales alone.

It is based off of independent groups buying a Kindle, disassembling it, and valuating the components at the current market price for buying said components at bulk prices. Amazon has never said a word AFAIK about how much it costs to make a Kindle.

It has been empirically verified that Amazon does not make a profit off of Kindle e-ink hardware. And I don't think anything would have changed since the last reports I read. (Last year? 18 months? Can't remember...)

If I put it differently right now average price of tab is 210$ and if you buy 5 - 6 years old tablet or phablet that are closer to amazon kindle then how much it would cost? ask yourself !!

I have no idea what you are trying to say, but since you mentioned tablets (somehow), then ponder this: tablets aren't e-ink ereaders, and any attempted comparison is doomed to inherent failure. That includes trying to put a price on the components.



I believe the most expensive single component in an ereader is the screen. E-ink screens are not made in the same quantity as LCD screens.

[webroot]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Yeah, why doesn't my electric toothbrush have 1GB of RAM and an octa-core processor?

Clearly it is due to a lack of innovation.

this is because nobody want 1gb ram in toothbrush although lot of folks desire one in kindle

[cvkemp]

The problem is that most customers want their devices to do much more than they were designed for. AKA they want to pay as little as possible the device then expect it to do the same as a devices that cost 10 times as much.

[Geralt]

Originally Posted by webroot

this is because nobody want 1gb ram in toothbrush although lot of folks desire one in kindle

Nah. A hell of a lot more people want kindle for one thing. To read books.

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by patrickt

My browsing isn't slow. Oh, wait, I browse on my computer. I read books on my Kindle.

Definitely this.

If I want to browse, check facebook, answer emails, respond to messages or play Atlantic fleet, I use my iPad

When I want to read, I use my ereader.

[webroot]

Originally Posted by sabredog

Definitely this.

If I want to browse, check facebook, answer emails, respond to messages or play Atlantic fleet, I use my iPad

When I want to read, I use my ereader.

do you read articles online?

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by webroot

do you read articles online?

Reading articles online?

I do yes, either on a PC, notebook or iPad. I group that into "browsing".

Shall I define ereader reading then to reading ebooks perhaps? Because that is all I require from my ereader.

[webroot]

Originally Posted by sabredog

Reading articles online?

I do yes, either on a PC, notebook or iPad. I group that into "browsing".

Shall I define ereader reading then to reading ebooks perhaps? Because that is all I require from my ereader.

Many of these articles are as big as short story books that is why i said. One of main reason ereaders are dedicated to the thing which you mention is because unlike LCD they do not strain eyes, but the same need also arise for long time article reading.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by webroot

this is because nobody want 1gb ram in toothbrush although lot of folks desire one in kindle

My sarcastic comment about toothbrushes was meant to indicate my disbelief that anyone (other than you, maybe) actually needs 1GB RAM in an ereader any more than they need it in a toothbrush.
Have I failed to blatantly display said sarcasm? I apologize for my insufficiency.

Additionally, you claimed a lack of innovation without actually bringing any reasons -- presumably we should not need explaining. Even more unfortunately, the way you phrased it makes it a tautology -- which is not a very convincing form of proof.

Originally Posted by webroot

Many of these articles are as big as short story books that is why i said. One of main reason ereaders are dedicated to the thing which you mention is because unlike LCD they do not strain eyes, but the same need also arise for long time article reading.

No, most articles are not as long as a book. I have yet to see an article that was too long to comfortably read on my computer -- and I am not someone who likes to read books on their computer!
I have never seen, heard, smelt, tasted, or touched this "need" you speak of, and I suspect it is a snark or a boojum.

[eschwartz]

Oh -- can I take it you have finally accepted that Amazon does not make a profit off of selling Kindle E-Ink devices?

[webroot]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Oh -- can I take it you have finally accepted that Amazon does not make a profit off of selling Kindle E-Ink devices?

I understand your sarcastism but you'll have to believe me, there are lot of people who need a powerful eink device not just me! I am thinking that opinion on this thread are based on individual's preferences, but I take that positively, as ultimately my interest was to find out why eink is stuck, and i now have a better vision on that, it is closely related to utility and manufacturers limitation. surely it is not something like (taught) "ereaders are for reading and tablet are for browsing" or if somebody do not like 1gb ram then manufacturer do not care about that as long as he can make profit from new innovation. A poster replied that its a niche market, it feels like niche because we are comparing with ubiquitous tablet and smartphones but there are far more narrow niche products being made.

You maybe correct but without any actual proof how can anyone take "Amazon did not make profit"? if you checkout from Chinese supplier average price of 6 inch LCD screen is approx :- 10 usd (bulk order), do you think eink would be four times costlier? <- in response to your previous comment.

[eschwartz]

I reiterate -- multiple people have broken down the physical components of the device and calculated their total value as being only slightly under the selling price. If you really wish to believe that that does not constitute proof, go right ahead, but that's being silly.
If you just want to see that documentation for yourself, I don't have the links handy. But as I recall, the Wall Street Journal did the breakdown at least once.


You can continue to reiterate that "lots of people need a powerful eink device", but you are still wrong. Very few people need one, which is why only a handful of small manufacturers make them -- or at least, make a device that superficially resembles them. Manufacturers to whom it is big business to see 500-1000 devices; in contrast, Amazon sells millions of Kindles.

And TBH, they too are catering as much to the large-screen readers who want to read with Android apps, as they are to the people who want a generic E-Ink tablet with blazing speed.
That is why even those devices make only a half-hearted attempt to be what you want them to be.

[dickloraine]

If you just want to read long articles on your reader, why not just use pocket (with kobo) or send to kindle (for the kindle)? That even makes the article better to read.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by webroot

this is because nobody want 1gb ram in toothbrush although lot of folks desire one in kindle

I do not get what difference it would make. I would have thought that the screen and the CPU was the factors that limited what you can do. Can you give an example of something you cannot program with 500M ram but you can program it with 1G ram?

[webroot]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

You can continue to reiterate that "lots of people need a powerful eink device", but you are still wrong. Very few people need one, which is why only a handful of small manufacturers make them -- or at least, make a device that superficially resembles them. Manufacturers to whom it is big business to see 500-1000 devices; in contrast, Amazon sells millions of Kindles.

I am not commenting on other items. But I have one message:- any form of reading is ultimately same action, whether you are reading a chapter in literature or online articles, I may read 10 articles in a stretch, the word count is going to be the same, eyes will suffer the same.

But I understand that overall bookworms tends to eat more text per day than average web surfer will do. So you are correct that market demand is well below, but did I say anywhere, such new innovation have to be made available for cheap? iPhone is not cheap, Yotaphone has tried for whatever high price would fit to their business, i didn't buy it because overall this wasn't workable for me.

Other thing is market demand may not always be predetermined, it is often seen you generate market demand by rolling out new innovative products. For whatever reasons eink leaders were slow on innovation and that further curtailed demand, a cyclic chain.

Originally Posted by dickloraine

If you just want to read long articles on your reader, why not just use pocket (with kobo) or send to kindle (for the kindle)? That even makes the article better to read.

that would make it just like reading eBooks, Mostly I am not reading for pleasure but it is like adventurous reading, I browse for interesting pieces or shared experience or maybe some research related stuff, I wouldn't know in advance where to find them.