Dear Penguin Books: Library users are not freeloaders!

[spindlegirl]

There, had to get that off my chest.....

[CJJ]

I know, I bought "The Spy That Came in From The Cold" by John Le Carre' ebook several weeks ago. I in fact had pre-ordered it. Penguin seems to have a lock on these. I want to read more, and there are other ebooks of his. But now I'm thinking used book store. Would have been happy to pay for the ebooks, but not anymore.

Library users are not freeloaders!

[Synamon]

Library users sort of are freeloaders. Calm down, don't yell at me yet. The people reading the library books are getting them free, because as a culture we've decided that books should be available to everyone and not only the rich. Someone is still paying for the books, which is all publishers should care about.

Library books aren't as different from any other book sale as the publishers and authors make out. Lots of individually purchased books pass through multiple hands. People share books within their family or circle of friends, they exchange them in book exchanges, or sell them to used bookstores and the cycle starts all over again.

Books in libraries are good for authors and publishers and the public, Penguin is cutting off their nose to spite their face and I really hope all their authors are pitching fits. Sadly, they probably all drank the "ebooks are evil" and "libraries are full of freeloaders" koolaid and don't realize how much this will hurt them.

[CJJ]

I'm not yelling at you. I actually read your entire post (otherwise I would have ). But I do want to point out that Libraries have to buy the books. There are a lot of Libraries so it's not like there is not some publisher income from the transaction. It comes out of our property taxes. So it may dilute profits, or total sales, but it is not freeloading.

[spindlegirl]

I kind of can see the "freeloaders" side of things.... to a point.

I believe we should all have access to our culture via libraries. I love books and will buy books, but I only will buy the books that I am insanely attached to, where just "borrowing a copy" isn't good enough. There are some books where, when the due date comes up, I think, "damn", and put it on my to buy list.

In a way, from a publisher's point of view, I can see the fear that comes from their books being loaned out for free. Often there are books that are out there that are not worth the price tag that comes with it and they darn well know it, and they are scared people are going to discover that before shelling out the money.

But isn't this a good thing? Allowing the customer to choose? What I may return to the library in disgust may provide the next person ultimate joy, and THEY may ask for it for a birthday gift? So I don't wind up buying all of the 80 books I take out of the library every year. But to have discovered and fallen in love with even 2 of them is a good thing. They'd have someone talking about their book for a long time.

I have respect for institutions that allow me to be a conscious consumer. I cannot afford blind consumerism. One of my favorite authors Margaret Atwood has many books out there that I either love passionately or don't want to own at all. There is one of her paper books I have lost three times and re-bought it new, whereas others I was glad I had the library.

But libraries as a cornerstone to culture is the main thing here. There are a lot of authors I never would have heard of had I not seen them featured in the library as a "perhaps you may give this a try...." table.

There are many people for whom e-books have gotten them to read more (points to self). I can't always get to the library in person. Especially during this month where local transit strikes are occurring. But even then, there are people who sometimes for many reasons, can't make it out there.

Penguin books has just cut off a huge potential customer base. For me it's obvious which books come from penguin, because the e-book loan often has just the penguin on the cover and not the book's actual cover.

[xg4bx]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

But isn't this a good thing? Allowing the customer to choose? What I may return to the library in disgust may provide the next person ultimate joy, and THEY may ask for it for a birthday gift? So I don't wind up buying all of the 80 books I take out of the library every year. But to have discovered and fallen in love with even 2 of them is a good thing. They'd have someone talking about their book for a long time.

I have respect for institutions that allow me to be a conscious consumer. I cannot afford blind consumerism. One of my favorite authors Margaret Atwood has many books out there that I either love passionately or don't want to own at all. There is one of her paper books I have lost three times and re-bought it new, whereas others I was glad I had the library.

.

i think you kinda nailed it. i'm sure corporate institutions hate informed consumers. they want nothing more than for you to blindly buy that $30 hardcover, they don't care if they're putting out a substandard product.

i think refusing to support the public library is the height of greedy, piggish behavior and i will make it my business to never buy a book from penguin. oh, i'll still read them but they'll never see my money. i hope their books are "read for free" all the way into bankruptcy.

[ebusinesstutor]

I have discovered many new authors through libraries and then gone on to buy their books. I rarely go to a book store and pay full price for books from an author I never heard of.

Instead, the library and used book stores are how I discover new favourite authors.

[6charlong]

The notice I read said Penguin stopped working with Overdrive. This may be a dispute over how Overdrive and Amazon are handling library loans of books with Kindle DRM. The publishers have a long and friendly relationship with public libraries and Penguin expressly stated they want to continue that relationship.

My local library uses EBSCO because it's less expensive than Overdrive but EBSCO only manages traditional library loans through ADE, thus ePub only. Penguin's announcement affirmed their ongoing relationship with libraries and stated that they are looking to other library loan partners:

Looking ahead, we are continuing to talk about our future plans for eBook and digital audiobook availability for library lending with a number of partners providing these services. Because of these discussions, as of February 10, 2012, Penguin will no longer offer additional copies of eBooks and audiobooks for purchase via Overdrive.

[emellaich]

It seems to me that the highest value in a book is tied to time. Books first come out in hardback and if you really want to read them right away you pay hardback prices. Then they come out in print.

Baen has shown that readers will pay more for electronic copies that are released early (ARCs) as compared to the same title released in an electronic version a bit later.

Many authors and publishers have experimented with using older novels to promote newer novels.

So, my proposal is to sell to libraries down the road. High prices on new ebooks (slightly below hardback levels); lower prices one year after release (paperback book tier); release to libraries two years after release.

I don't have the facts here, and would appreciate a heads up from someone who does, but this is based on my assumption that libraries pay less for books/ebooks than the general public -- if for no other reason, then on a per reader basis.

Anyway, this approach would let the publishers to provide a steady stream of ebooks to libraries without cannibalizing existing sales.

[Joykins]

I actually don't mind waiting a little for a library release of an ebook, for a few reasons:

1) library lending is for the patient. Especially ebook lending. At this point for anything that hasn't been around for a few years, you place the hold and wait in line. At one point I had a hold on a book that had 216 users on the wait list.

2) library lending is for the cash-poor. A lot of us would prefer to buy more books if we had unlimited cash. But constraints on the entertainment budget means we have to ration our purchases.

When library borrowers become impatient (I don't want to wait until 215 other people have read the latest in this fabulous series!) it often translates into purchases.

When library borrowers have more handy cash, it also often translates into purchases--of favorite authors discovered through library lending.

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by emellaich

I don't have the facts here, and would appreciate a heads up from someone who does, but this is based on my assumption that libraries pay less for books/ebooks than the general public -- if for no other reason, then on a per reader basis.

I had heared that they paid a little more, actually. I don't blame the publisher for charging a small premium for a book that will be read by multiple readers--as long as it isn't unreasonable.

[Gladtobemom]

I'm one of those cash poor people. We are in our 50's, still 2 children at home in their tweens. Going to the library is a highlight of the week for us. We get books, DVDs, ebooks, and even take fun informative classes.

Our entertainment budget is slim. Our children have access to the knowledge of the world through the library.

Honestly, we do own a LOT of books. Almost all of them have been purchased over many years. We also buy ebooks from Baen and download books from Gutenberg. We don't pirate. Our ebook readers are an old tiny Laptop and two Bookeen devices.

We did choose to concentrate on the Mobi format years ago, but that can change. We're NOT happy with the idea of a book reader that leaves "Amazon" in control of our ebook library.

What we "wish" is that we could buy a group of readers and have a family account for them all that would let us read all formats on Eink screen. So far, that's just not possible.

We aren't freeloaders because we support the library. We support it with our patronage, our time (we do volunteer), our taxes, and our votes. The library does pay for books.

The publishing industry is going through some changes. I hope that it will mean epublishers like Baen will facilitate the development of authors and bring the authors closer to their audiences. If it means that Amazon is going to be able to reach into my ebook-shelf at will and keep track of it . . . then that's evil.

:sigh:

[andym]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

There, had to get that off my chest.....

Erm. I only visit this forum occasionally.

Obviously everyone else knows what this is about, but I haven't the faintest idea.

[spindlegirl]

It's about Penguin Book's decision to stop licensing e-books to libraries.

[andym]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

It's about Penguin Book's decision to stop licensing e-books to libraries.

Thanks. A quick Google search suggests that Penguin have pulled these books due to alleged concerns about security. I suspect that this is BS but, so far as I can see they haven't accused anyone of being a freeloader.