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View Poll Results: Is the Darknet unethical when the book is out of print?
Yes, using the darknet is unethical. 41 19.71%
No, anything that is out of print is fair game. 142 68.27%
Not sure. 25 12.02%
Voters: 208. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-25-2010, 05:53 PM   #61
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My rubbish summary was of Jonathan Haidt's work, which is more subtle than I suggested. And quite entertaining
Oh, a TED talk. That is guaranteed to be some quality work that is well worth watching.
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:02 PM   #62
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I think preserving texts is more important than protecting copyright.
I agree. Artistic/intellectual value of a text should prime over the financial aspect. It doesn't mean the authors shouldn't be fairly compensated. I just can't accept the publishers to remove any book because it doesn't make a return of (I just invent the percentage) 35% instead of 5-10% (what should be more than enough). In today's world (any activity), any profit that is less than 25-40% is considered as a loss. Helllooo!
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:02 PM   #63
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Oh, a TED talk. That is guaranteed to be some quality work that is well worth watching.
Did you mean that it is or it isn't?
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:04 PM   #64
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Agree. Artistic/intellectual value of a book should prime over the financial aspect. However, it doesn't mean the authors shouldn't be fairly compensated. I can't accept the publishers to cut any book because it doesn't bring (I just invent) 35% instead of 5-10% (what should be more than enough). In today's world (any area), any profit that is less than 25-40% is considered as a loss. Helllooo!
Really? A lot of businesses have much tighter margins than this.
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:06 PM   #65
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Really? A lot of businesses have much tighter margins than this.
They do, but it is still considered as a loss for the vast majority of, especially big, companies. And publishers are there, isn't it?.
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:12 PM   #66
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They do, but it is still considered as a loss for the vast majority of, especially big, companies. And publishers are there, isn't it?.
Not the vast majority: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...tries/profits/
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:16 PM   #67
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They do, but it is still considered as a loss for the vast majority of, especially big, companies. And publishers are there, isn't it?.
I'm still not convinced. Profit at 25% of turnover would be massive - never mind 40% - for a large company.

I just googled some:
Amazon.com: 3.83%
Apple: 21.43%
IBM: 14.39%
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:19 PM   #68
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I'm still not convinced. Profit at 25% of turnover would be massive - never mind 40% - for a large company.

I just googled some:
Amazon.com: 3.83%
Apple: 21.43%
IBM: 14.39%
And Apple is an outlier, for sure.
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:55 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Thornton View Post
I'm still not convinced. Profit at 25% of turnover would be massive - never mind 40% - for a large company.

I just googled some:
Amazon.com: 3.83%
Apple: 21.43%
IBM: 14.39%
And I think the decision to not continue to publish is usually because the company feels they can't make any money or will lose money by printing more books. Anybody who's ever considering self-publishing physical books can relate to this. You have to sell a lot of books to break-even on even a small print run.
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Old 08-26-2010, 12:20 AM   #70
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I think what some people have being trying to say here is that a good guideline for "ethical" is to follow the Golden Rule. Basically, don't hurt others. If a book has gone out of print, then getting a copy off the Darknet doesn't hurt anyone. It's not a matter of entitlement, simply that you should be free to do what you want as long as you aren't hurting anyone.
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Old 08-26-2010, 12:43 AM   #71
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The original intent of copyright law was as stated previously. Incentive for folks to create, to make a profit...then it was turned over to the public for the public good.

Then it was totally butchered to the current lifetime + 50...along with other changes to account for corporate "people" (you know...that have the same rights as people now apparently, except the bad parts).

I can see extending it a bit beyond the 14+14 concept it started with...but 100+ years is ridiculous. As is the corporate loopholes.

I don't have any ethical issues with downloading things not commercially available. With books I think I don't really have any ethical qualms about buying a physical copy at a used bookstore and downloading an ebook, either - IMO that's even better. Who am I depriving income of, then, really?

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Old 08-26-2010, 12:52 AM   #72
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Personally, I think that grabbing books off the darknet is unethical if you're depriving the legitimate copyright holder of a sale. That's difficult to do if the book is out of print.
Bingo!

The purpose of the copyright law is to make more books available by increasing the likelihood that people who write books will make money doing so. A writer who does not offer his book for sale violates the intended functioning of the law, so he lacks any moral basis for asserting any rights granted by the law.
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Old 08-26-2010, 03:39 AM   #73
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Personally, I think that grabbing books off the darknet is unethical if you're depriving the legitimate copyright holder of a sale. That's difficult to do if the book is out of print.
Ding Ding, We have a winner!
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Old 08-26-2010, 09:39 PM   #74
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Reading pirated books is dangerous and will make you go blind. Don't do it!

Also, looking at photographs or videos of people enjoying copyright vio's is dangerous and should be banned.
(Although it's not so bad if the people are seen to be frowning while "enjoying" the copyright violation.)
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Old 08-26-2010, 09:42 PM   #75
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Reading pirated books is dangerous and will make you go blind. Don't do it!
Does a blind pirate wear two eye patches instead of one?

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