Multiple Folder; do they slow things down?

chas0039 · 06-15-2011, 01:57 PM

I was wondering if multiple folders, I'm talking about more than 1000, will slow down the search and other functions on the Kindle 3. Calibre sets up a new folder for each author and this slowed down my old nook so much I had to re-do the entire set of books.

Thanks

Blossom · 06-15-2011, 02:11 PM

There is no multiple folders on the Kindle just Collections. Do you mean collections? Collections are more like tags so you can have a little organization on your Kindle.

chas0039 · 06-15-2011, 02:17 PM

No, there are many multiple folders on Kindle if you use Calibre to transfer books other than Amazon purchases. Calibre creates one per author.

Blossom · 06-15-2011, 02:19 PM

Are you sure? I don't think the Kindle 3 supports subfolders. I could be wrong but I do use Calibre and it's never put any subfolders in my documents folder.

jswinden · 06-15-2011, 02:19 PM

Simple answer, yes.

If you have 1000 Collections that implies you will have several thousand books. With several thousand books the system will have at least tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions, of words to search through. I assume the Kindle builds an index to speed up the process, but I also assume a small index can be searched faster than a huge index. How much faster is a good question as it might be insignificant.

DiapDealer · 06-15-2011, 02:28 PM

Calibre's default behavior of Sending books to the Kindle will create subfolders based on author/book-title in the documents folder. The Kindle doesn't seem to care about subfolders when showing titles on your Home screen. I don't know if it slows things down or not.

You can stop calibre from creating subfolders (or change the naming scheme) by modifying the Send to preferences and/or the Kindle device driver plugin settings.

Blossom · 06-15-2011, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Calibre's default behavior of Sending books to the Kindle will create subfolders based on author/book-title in the documents folder. The Kindle doesn't seem to care about subfolders when showing titles on your Home screen. I don't know if it slows things down or not.

You can stop calibre from creating subfolders (or change the naming scheme) by modifying the Send to preferences and/or the Kindle device driver plugin settings.

This explains why mine doesn't. I did change the save template.
I had no idea I could have subfolders though.

This opens up a new possibility for me. I'm guessing you can't move say games to their own folder though? Just sideloaded books?

DiapDealer · 06-15-2011, 02:40 PM

To be honest, I don't have any games to try it on, but I'm almost willing to bet you could—but I'll bet on anything. It should be pretty easy and harmless to test.

I'd want to move any of the game's companion files (I'm assuming there are some?) with it so you don't lose any saved games/settings/whatnot.

emalvick · 06-15-2011, 04:01 PM

Kindle does allow subfolders on the device in terms of sending books over, but you won't see that structure at all when actually using your Kindle. As a result, I don't really worry much about where Calibre puts books on my Kindle. I'll probably change my ways if Amazon ever makes browsing your folders possible.

As for speed, I don't think there would be any more of a problem having a 1000 books in one folder vs. 1000 books in 1000 different folders. Any speed loss will be more likely due to indexing.

Blossom · 06-15-2011, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

To be honest, I don't have any games to try it on, but I'm almost willing to bet you could—but I'll bet on anything. It should be pretty easy and harmless to test.

I'd want to move any of the game's companion files (I'm assuming there are some?) with it so you don't lose any saved games/settings/whatnot.

Thanks! The game files are each one file with the extension azw2 and I guess the settings are in the active Content folder so no need to move those.
I made two folders Apps and Games and put them in there and it seems to be working!

I did have to fiddle with collections a bit to get them to show the moved items correctly. I also moved my sideloaded books into their own folder. I left the PDocs alone with the long crazy filenames I didn't know if putting them in a Subfolder would be a good idea.

So now I can make heads and tails out of my Documents folder again!

CWatkinsNash · 06-15-2011, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

To be honest, I don't have any games to try it on, but I'm almost willing to bet you could—but I'll bet on anything. It should be pretty easy and harmless to test.

I'd want to move any of the game's companion files (I'm assuming there are some?) with it so you don't lose any saved games/settings/whatnot.

We'll find out within the next couple of days. I have to clean out my Kindle so I'm going to start fresh. I'll change the settings so there won't be any subfolders, and I'll be putting 1000+ books back on it. (There are new ones coming in to replace any not being put back on so the total will be about the same as now.) I'll let you know if I notice a speed difference.

jocampo · 06-15-2011, 04:40 PM

I can be wrong, but I think that the search speed depends of the amount of internal fragmentation and of course, the disk format which I think is FAT32 for Kindles.

I don't think that many folders will affect the searching speed but if you have a lot used space (notice I did not say books) the FAT system start to get fragmented and hence slowing down your searches. This is because the way FAT32 works: it does not avoid newly written files from becoming scattered across the partition.

chas0039 · 06-15-2011, 07:48 PM

I just got the answer by trying and then checking with Amazon after the Kindle froze twice.

The fewer number of titles in a sub directory, the better. So Calibre does exactly what we want.

j.p.s · 06-15-2011, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jocampo

I can be wrong, but I think that the search speed depends of the amount of internal fragmentation and of course, the disk format which I think is FAT32 for Kindles.

I don't think that many folders will affect the searching speed but if you have a lot used space (notice I did not say books) the FAT system start to get fragmented and hence slowing down your searches. This is because the way FAT32 works: it does not avoid newly written files from becoming scattered across the partition.

Fragmentation is irrelevant on flash memory.

jocampo · 06-15-2011, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.p.s

Fragmentation is irrelevant on flash memory.

There is a min amount of fragmentation after a lot of writes but because there are no physical heads like regular hard drives, it is not as bad or noticeable as regular disks. The problem is that defragmenting itself affects flash memory lifespan

Now, that's my understanding, ... it would be nice if you have any article or link about it to take a further look ...

06-15-2011, 01:57 PM	#1
chas0039 Sceptic Posts: 573 Karma: 73436 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: The Lake Device: rooted Nooks, retired. JetBook Lite, Kindle 3, 4, Kobo Nia, Libra H2O.	Multiple Folder; do they slow things down? I was wondering if multiple folders, I'm talking about more than 1000, will slow down the search and other functions on the Kindle 3. Calibre sets up a new folder for each author and this slowed down my old nook so much I had to re-do the entire set of books. Thanks

06-15-2011, 02:11 PM	#2
Blossom Treasure Seeker Posts: 18,708 Karma: 26026435 Join Date: Mar 2010 Device: Kobo HD Glo, Kindles, Kindle Fires, Andriod Devices	There is no multiple folders on the Kindle just Collections. Do you mean collections? Collections are more like tags so you can have a little organization on your Kindle. Last edited by Blossom; 06-15-2011 at 02:14 PM.

06-15-2011, 02:19 PM	#5
jswinden Nameless Being	Simple answer, yes. If you have 1000 Collections that implies you will have several thousand books. With several thousand books the system will have at least tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions, of words to search through. I assume the Kindle builds an index to speed up the process, but I also assume a small index can be searched faster than a huge index. How much faster is a good question as it might be insignificant. Last edited by jswinden; 06-15-2011 at 02:21 PM.

06-15-2011, 04:40 PM	#12
jocampo Layback feline Posts: 3,034 Karma: 6980745 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: USA Device: Oasis 2nd gen, Sony DPTS1, iPad Pro 10.5"	I can be wrong, but I think that the search speed depends of the amount of internal fragmentation and of course, the disk format which I think is FAT32 for Kindles. I don't think that many folders will affect the searching speed but if you have a lot used space (notice I did not say books) the FAT system start to get fragmented and hence slowing down your searches. This is because the way FAT32 works: it does not avoid newly written files from becoming scattered across the partition. Last edited by jocampo; 06-15-2011 at 04:44 PM.

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06-15-2011, 02:17 PM	#3
chas0039 Sceptic Posts: 573 Karma: 73436 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: The Lake Device: rooted Nooks, retired. JetBook Lite, Kindle 3, 4, Kobo Nia, Libra H2O.	No, there are many multiple folders on Kindle if you use Calibre to transfer books other than Amazon purchases. Calibre creates one per author.

06-15-2011, 02:28 PM	#6
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 27,552 Karma: 193191846 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	Calibre's default behavior of Sending books to the Kindle will create subfolders based on author/book-title in the documents folder. The Kindle doesn't seem to care about subfolders when showing titles on your Home screen. I don't know if it slows things down or not. You can stop calibre from creating subfolders (or change the naming scheme) by modifying the Send to preferences and/or the Kindle device driver plugin settings.

06-15-2011, 02:40 PM	#8
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 27,552 Karma: 193191846 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	To be honest, I don't have any games to try it on, but I'm almost willing to bet you could—but I'll bet on anything. It should be pretty easy and harmless to test. I'd want to move any of the game's companion files (I'm assuming there are some?) with it so you don't lose any saved games/settings/whatnot.

06-15-2011, 04:01 PM	#9
emalvick Groupie Posts: 166 Karma: 5358 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Davis, CA Device: Kindle 3	Kindle does allow subfolders on the device in terms of sending books over, but you won't see that structure at all when actually using your Kindle. As a result, I don't really worry much about where Calibre puts books on my Kindle. I'll probably change my ways if Amazon ever makes browsing your folders possible. As for speed, I don't think there would be any more of a problem having a 1000 books in one folder vs. 1000 books in 1000 different folders. Any speed loss will be more likely due to indexing.

06-15-2011, 07:48 PM	#13
chas0039 Sceptic Posts: 573 Karma: 73436 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: The Lake Device: rooted Nooks, retired. JetBook Lite, Kindle 3, 4, Kobo Nia, Libra H2O.	I just got the answer by trying and then checking with Amazon after the Kindle froze twice. The fewer number of titles in a sub directory, the better. So Calibre does exactly what we want.