Fantasy (Magic, Wizard...) - Page 3

Freeshadow · 07-06-2013, 08:52 AM

Agreed, but you are getting my point. I pointed to the fantasy common frame of reference works only because they were explicitly declared as being off radar by the OP. Having a basic knowledge of the other, more common fields - classic lit., science, philosophy, mythology etc. you pointed out - at least to a degree which makes one notice THAT there is something one could miss (and therefor maybe look it up) and to know the general direction WHERE to look for is IMHO part of "being well-read".

HarryT · 07-06-2013, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmw

And "essentially created the the fantasy genre" is a bit of a stretch, Harry

It was a "tongue in cheek" comment, but the fact remains that LOTR is widely regarded as THE classic work of fantasy, and anyone who claims to enjoy fantasy not to have read it is very odd indeed.

treadlightly · 07-06-2013, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

It was a "tongue in cheek" comment, but the fact remains that LOTR is widely regarded as THE classic work of fantasy, and anyone who claims to enjoy fantasy not to have read it is very odd indeed.

I enjoy fantasy. I read the Hobbit years ago and enjoyed it. I started Fellowship of the Ring and lost interest when those Hobbits didn't seem to go anywhere. Then the movies came out and I enjoyed them. I have no need to go back and read the books. I must be odd.

Owna · 07-06-2013, 01:15 PM

Thanks for the Recommendations and i would be pleased the hear some for the ranger's apprentice.

And now to that thing with i don't like old books or something like that that went a little bit out of control. It's just that right now i would like to read some newer books because it is my preference right now im going to read the other stuff later and im not going to read LOTR because i really dont like reading a book that i already seen a Movie of its the same with Eragon i also tried reading the first book but man its just so boring

(not the book just that you know everything...)

pdurrant · 07-06-2013, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owna

i really dont like reading a book that i already seen a Movie of its the same with Eragon i also tried reading the first book but man its just so boring

(not the book just that you know everything...)

I haven't seen Eragon the movie, but I did once try reading the book. It was pretty dire, IMO.

But with LoTR, I think you'll find plenty of interest in the books that didn't make it into the films, and more to enjoy in the books than the bare plot.

But if you can't stand knowing what happens in broad outline, then by all means read something new. (I recommend the Young Wizards series by Diane Duane. Or perhaps the Ethshar series by Lawrence Watt-Evans, starting with "The Misenchanted Sword".)

alansplace · 07-06-2013, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdurrant

I haven't seen Eragon the movie, but I did once try reading the book. It was pretty dire, IMO.

But with LoTR, I think you'll find plenty of interest in the books that didn't make it into the films, and more to enjoy in the books than the bare plot.

But if you can't stand knowing what happens in broad outline, then by all means read something new. (I recommend the Young Wizards series by Diane Duane. Or perhaps the Ethshar series by Lawrence Watt-Evans, starting with "The Misenchanted Sword".)

to LOTR and Young Wizards!

eschwartz · 07-07-2013, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dickloraine

That is true for the older Pratchet books and especialy for the Rincewind books. But Pratchet moved even in his older books away from beeing overly parodistic. So the Rincewind books would be no good recommendation, but something like "Going Postal" or "Klonk" is okay. And to fully understand the excellent witches books, you have to know fairy tales and Shakespeare not Howard or Leiber

I think nearly nobody gets all the references and jokes, how many depends on your knowledge of the referenced material, with is not just fantasy but science, classical literatur, philosophy, history and many more. So even if you lack in one area, there is plenty to be amused anyway. The special cases being books that focus on some source material, like Rincewind on classic Swords&Sorcery and slapstic-movies, the witches as above etc. But many of the references are so common in our culture that you would get even some of them without having read the original (anybody knows King Kong or Tarzan or Dracula, even without having read it or seen a movie)

I think you mean Thud! not Klonk and I know several people who do not get the references anywhere, but still like his books because they're funny even without the in jokes. Besides for the first few, which as I've said, were not his best.

And I would argue that all the books are still parodistic, but he's moved away from literature and gone into culture instead.

Monstrous Regiment = parody of war.
Unseen Academicals = parody of university.
The Fifth Elephant = parody of politics.
Jingo = parody of nationalism.

Etc. etc.

The Discworld is all about parody. The question is, of what?

Oh yes, and the next book has been confirmed, Raising Steam, out on October 24 of this year. It will be a Moist von Lipwig book, but NOT about taxes, rather, the Undertaking which was hinted at in Making Money.

HarryT · 07-07-2013, 03:33 AM

"Magician" by Raymond Feist is a fantasy classic. Read it.

eschwartz · 07-07-2013, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

"Magician" by Raymond Feist is a fantasy classic. Read it.

Might be a bad move, actually. If you read the first book, you might get addicted to Riftwar and have a compulsion to read, read read and finish it ALL.

Have you read 25, 26, and 27?

Penforhire · 07-09-2013, 02:30 PM

I'm sure there are enough current sorcery-ish novels to keep you occupied indefinitely. But your preference is, to me, quite arbitrary and you are cutting off the roots of the genre. Your experience of current fantasy is not flavored or colored by any grounding in the 'originals.' So it is possible for you to go head-over-heels for highly derivative works.

More power to you but you won't have any basis for comparative literature discussions. You also won't enjoy some highly sophisticated works like Gene Wolfe's "Wizard Knight" pair of books.

Owna · 07-09-2013, 03:25 PM

@Penforhire: Everything you said is right

Well how about this you tell me which book i should read i dont care how old or whatever and read it (i prefer male lead) ahh and pls no children book

dickloraine · 07-09-2013, 07:29 PM

I know you meant Penforhire,but like nearly everybody here has said: Read the "Lord of the Rings". All leading character are male by the way. The only women that are important are Galadriel, Eowyn and maybe Arwen. And all of them are just minor characters

And why no children books? Most of the books on your reading list could be described as children or young adult books (that does not mean anything about quality, just that children are also in the audience)?

Owna · 07-10-2013, 12:18 AM

Already got the LotR on my Tablet and most books on my list are young adults thats right but that doesn't mean i prefer children books. And pls if someone says he prefers something u dont need to give them a hard time everytime i say i prefer something someone tells me im wrong or at least thats how it feels

John F · 07-10-2013, 07:40 AM

How about the Lyonesse series by Jack Vance? It is fantasy, but not a lot of magic.

Owna · 07-10-2013, 08:34 AM

Already read the Lyonesse series

(wrote that somewhere :P)

07-06-2013, 01:15 PM	#34
Owna Member Posts: 10 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2013 Device: Asus	Thanks for the Recommendations and i would be pleased the hear some for the ranger's apprentice. And now to that thing with i don't like old books or something like that that went a little bit out of control. It's just that right now i would like to read some newer books because it is my preference right now im going to read the other stuff later and im not going to read LOTR because i really dont like reading a book that i already seen a Movie of its the same with Eragon i also tried reading the first book but man its just so boring (not the book just that you know everything...) Last edited by Owna; 07-06-2013 at 01:19 PM.

07-10-2013, 12:18 AM	#43
Owna Member Posts: 10 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2013 Device: Asus	Already got the LotR on my Tablet and most books on my list are young adults thats right but that doesn't mean i prefer children books. And pls if someone says he prefers something u dont need to give them a hard time everytime i say i prefer something someone tells me im wrong or at least thats how it feels Last edited by Owna; 07-10-2013 at 02:08 AM.

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07-06-2013, 08:52 AM	#31
Freeshadow temp. out of service Posts: 2,791 Karma: 24285242 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Duisburg (DE) Device: PB 623	Agreed, but you are getting my point. I pointed to the fantasy common frame of reference works only because they were explicitly declared as being off radar by the OP. Having a basic knowledge of the other, more common fields - classic lit., science, philosophy, mythology etc. you pointed out - at least to a degree which makes one notice THAT there is something one could miss (and therefor maybe look it up) and to know the general direction WHERE to look for is IMHO part of "being well-read".

07-07-2013, 03:33 AM	#38
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	"Magician" by Raymond Feist is a fantasy classic. Read it.

07-09-2013, 02:30 PM	#40
Penforhire Wizard Posts: 2,230 Karma: 7145404 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle Voyage & iPhone 7+	I'm sure there are enough current sorcery-ish novels to keep you occupied indefinitely. But your preference is, to me, quite arbitrary and you are cutting off the roots of the genre. Your experience of current fantasy is not flavored or colored by any grounding in the 'originals.' So it is possible for you to go head-over-heels for highly derivative works. More power to you but you won't have any basis for comparative literature discussions. You also won't enjoy some highly sophisticated works like Gene Wolfe's "Wizard Knight" pair of books.

07-09-2013, 03:25 PM	#41
Owna Member Posts: 10 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2013 Device: Asus	@Penforhire: Everything you said is right Well how about this you tell me which book i should read i dont care how old or whatever and read it (i prefer male lead) ahh and pls no children book

07-09-2013, 07:29 PM	#42
dickloraine Guru Posts: 631 Karma: 7544080 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Berlin Device: PRS 350, Kobo Aura	I know you meant Penforhire,but like nearly everybody here has said: Read the "Lord of the Rings". All leading character are male by the way. The only women that are important are Galadriel, Eowyn and maybe Arwen. And all of them are just minor characters And why no children books? Most of the books on your reading list could be described as children or young adult books (that does not mean anything about quality, just that children are also in the audience)?

07-10-2013, 07:40 AM	#44
John F Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,166 Karma: 63764653 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Kobo Glo HD	How about the Lyonesse series by Jack Vance? It is fantasy, but not a lot of magic.

07-10-2013, 08:34 AM	#45
Owna Member Posts: 10 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2013 Device: Asus	Already read the Lyonesse series (wrote that somewhere :P)