Smashwords Succumbs to Censorship

DuskyRose · 02-25-2012, 01:29 PM

I've just run across this at The Digital Reader and hadn't seen it anywhere here yet...

Smashwords Succumbs to Censorship

Damn, but it pisses me off. I may not be interested in reading something myself, but I don't have the right to tell anyone else what they can read.

I can only imagine which genre's will be targeted next.

Pablo · 02-25-2012, 02:18 PM

This really pisses me off.
BTW, why does Smashwords need Paypal at all? Can't they process CC payments themselves?

ucfgrad93 · 02-25-2012, 02:27 PM

Paypal has the right to determine what sort of businesses they want to be associated with. For example, they don't have to provide payment services to a porn site. This is no different. For what ever reason, Paypal has decided that they don't want to provide services to Smashwords because of material they find objectionable. They are giving Smashwords the choice. Comply with the demand or find another way to receive payment.

DuskyRose · 02-25-2012, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pablo

BTW, why does Smashwords need Paypal at all? Can't they process CC payments themselves?

I'm hoping that they'll find other options in the future, and this is only a temporary measure until they can regroup and research other options.

Hubby and I decided not to use Paypal anymore, and it took a few days to do the bank transfer thing (about five IIRC) to get all our money out before removing our Bank information since we were changing banks. Once we removed out Bank information, we were cut off from using Paypal until we were 'verified' again with a new bank account. We've chosen not to do so, and basically can't do anything with our Paypal account since we hit the limit on unvarified usage.

So it's not an option for us at the moment anyway, but we did have to take a while to make sure we didn't have anything left at Paypal before moving on.

DuskyRose · 02-25-2012, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ucfgrad93

Paypal has the right to determine what sort of businesses they want to be associated with. For example, they don't have to provide payment services to a porn site. This is no different. For what ever reason, Paypal has decided that they don't want to provide services to Smashwords because of material they find objectionable. They are giving Smashwords the choice. Comply with the demand or find another way to receive payment.

I think any retailer can decide what they do and do not want to stock, but I don't believe that a payment company should have that same right. It shouldn't be up to them to decide what customer who do want to buy the items now can't. Obviously, if someone is using paypal to buy those items, then they want them. I don't think it's up to Paypal to decide that they can't have them by telling the retailer what they can and can't sell.

I'd also be pissed if I found that my Visa or Mastercard decided they could go into Books-A-Million or Barnes and Noble and tell them that they had to pull certain books and magazines or they could no longer use that form of payment.

I'm the consumer, and it's my right to decide what I want to buy with my money (even loaned money) and then I can decide whether I want to give a store my business based on what they sell. I don't agree that a third party can do that for me.

ucfgrad93 · 02-25-2012, 03:03 PM

So, Paypal should have to provide services for anything and everything?

I disagree. Just as a company can decide what to put on their shelves, Paypal has a right to not provide payment services to a site that provides content they object to. They are not saying that you can't buy what you want, they are saying that they have a right to deny service to something they find objectionable.

DuskyRose · 02-25-2012, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ucfgrad93

So, Paypal should have to provide services for anything and everything?

As long as it's legal merchandise, yes.

They're in the business of moving money from one account to another. That's it. They're not even the source of the money, since they take from other people's bank accounts and credit cards.

They need to stay out of the rest of it.

ucfgrad93 · 02-25-2012, 03:17 PM

A company has a right to determine who they will do business with and who they won't do business with. As long as they are not violating laws in making this determination then I don't see a problem with this.

Phogg · 02-25-2012, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuskyRose

I think any retailer can decide what they do and do not want to stock, but I don't believe that a payment company should have that same right. It shouldn't be up to them to decide what customer who do want to buy the items now can't. Obviously, if someone is using paypal to buy those items, then they want them. I don't think it's up to Paypal to decide that they can't have them by telling the retailer what they can and can't sell.

I'd also be pissed if I found that my Visa or Mastercard decided they could go into Books-A-Million or Barnes and Noble and tell them that they had to pull certain books and magazines or they could no longer use that form of payment.

I'm the consumer, and it's my right to decide what I want to buy with my money (even loaned money) and then I can decide whether I want to give a store my business based on what they sell. I don't agree that a third party can do that for me.

No, it is not your right to decide what you buy with your monery.

That is my perogative and mine alone DuskyRose.

Just as you arbitrarily decided payment companies don't have the right to set standards their customers must meet, so I am over ruling your right to decide what to do with your money.

You will now turn over all of your money and I shall invest it for you entirely in a vintage Beanie Baby collection.

After all only certain people have rights and others don't.

Obviousely the sole detirminer of which is which must be me.

Purple Lady · 02-25-2012, 03:42 PM

If Paypal doesn't want to do business with any store selling books with incest, they have to go out of business to do that. Anybody ever read Flowers in the Attic? That contains incest and a friend of mine found out her teenage daughter was reading it and took it away. Amazon even lists a School & Library Binding and the Kindle version is by Simon and Schuster.

So is this just against independent publishers books?

ucfgrad93 · 02-25-2012, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phogg

You will now turn over all of your money and I shall invest it for you entirely in a vintage Beanie Baby collection.

My Libearty bear approves of this.

CWatkinsNash · 02-25-2012, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Lady

If Paypal doesn't want to do business with any store selling books with incest, they have to go out of business to do that. Anybody ever read Flowers in the Attic? That contains incest and a friend of mine found out her teenage daughter was reading it and took it away. Amazon even lists a School & Library Binding and the Kindle version is by Simon and Schuster.

So is this just against independent publishers books?

The content restrictions only apply to works written for the purposes of titillation. Erotica. Therefore, not all depictions of incest/rape/bestiality fall afoul of this.

cHex · 02-25-2012, 04:32 PM

I don't find anything untoward here.

PayPal is not a government, is not declaring anything illegal, and is not preventing anyone from publishing or purchasing their qualifying erotica from other sources. PayPal has no legal means to force Smashwords to publish or not publish anything.

The American constitutional right of freedom of association protects PayPal from having to do business with an entity against their will.

It seems, in other words, that both PayPal and Smashwords are voluntarily making decisions they see as in their own best interests, whether from social or financial perspectives.

This may inconvenience some writers and readers, but then there is no constitutional right to convenience.

Fbone · 02-25-2012, 04:39 PM

Sounds like this decision originated with Paypal/Ebay's legal department. The prohibited subjects are probably illegal in some jurisdictions worldwide. Paypal being a worldwide company didn't want to involve itself in the transaction.

Or as being the payment processor some may feel Paypal profits from, condones or encourages the sale of such material. It may be an image they wish to avoid.

fjtorres · 02-25-2012, 04:48 PM

Never mind censorship: this is a service provider telling their *customers* how to run their business.
Everybody doing business with Paypal is now at risk of ebay telling them what they can or cannot sell. Viagra. Condoms. Yeast infection meds. What nnext? Who they can or cannot hire?

I'm thinking Google payments and (yes) AMAZON Payments are licking their chops.

02-25-2012, 01:29 PM	#1
DuskyRose Guru Posts: 726 Karma: 9209502 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Virginia Device: Boox Palma, Kdle Scribe & Paperwhite, Kobo Eclipsa 2e & Libra 2, Ipads	Smashwords Succumbs to Censorship I've just run across this at The Digital Reader and hadn't seen it anywhere here yet... Smashwords Succumbs to Censorship Damn, but it pisses me off. I may not be interested in reading something myself, but I don't have the right to tell anyone else what they can read. I can only imagine which genre's will be targeted next.

02-25-2012, 03:03 PM	#6
ucfgrad93 Wizard Posts: 2,360 Karma: 9026681 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Colorado Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2nd Gen	So, Paypal should have to provide services for anything and everything? I disagree. Just as a company can decide what to put on their shelves, Paypal has a right to not provide payment services to a site that provides content they object to. They are not saying that you can't buy what you want, they are saying that they have a right to deny service to something they find objectionable. Last edited by ucfgrad93; 02-25-2012 at 03:05 PM.

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02-25-2012, 02:18 PM	#2
Pablo Guru Posts: 970 Karma: 4999999 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Rosario, Argentina Device: SONY PRS-505, PRS-T2	This really pisses me off. BTW, why does Smashwords need Paypal at all? Can't they process CC payments themselves?

02-25-2012, 02:27 PM	#3
ucfgrad93 Wizard Posts: 2,360 Karma: 9026681 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Colorado Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2nd Gen	Paypal has the right to determine what sort of businesses they want to be associated with. For example, they don't have to provide payment services to a porn site. This is no different. For what ever reason, Paypal has decided that they don't want to provide services to Smashwords because of material they find objectionable. They are giving Smashwords the choice. Comply with the demand or find another way to receive payment.

02-25-2012, 03:17 PM	#8
ucfgrad93 Wizard Posts: 2,360 Karma: 9026681 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Colorado Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2nd Gen	A company has a right to determine who they will do business with and who they won't do business with. As long as they are not violating laws in making this determination then I don't see a problem with this.

02-25-2012, 03:42 PM	#10
Purple Lady Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,698 Karma: 16542228 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Pennsylvania Device: Huawei MediaPad M5, LG V30, Boyue T80S, Nexus 7 LTE, K3 3G, Fire HD8	If Paypal doesn't want to do business with any store selling books with incest, they have to go out of business to do that. Anybody ever read Flowers in the Attic? That contains incest and a friend of mine found out her teenage daughter was reading it and took it away. Amazon even lists a School & Library Binding and the Kindle version is by Simon and Schuster. So is this just against independent publishers books?

02-25-2012, 04:32 PM	#13
cHex Zealot Posts: 127 Karma: 2843950 Join Date: Sep 2011 Device: Kindle Keyboard (K3)	I don't find anything untoward here. PayPal is not a government, is not declaring anything illegal, and is not preventing anyone from publishing or purchasing their qualifying erotica from other sources. PayPal has no legal means to force Smashwords to publish or not publish anything. The American constitutional right of freedom of association protects PayPal from having to do business with an entity against their will. It seems, in other words, that both PayPal and Smashwords are voluntarily making decisions they see as in their own best interests, whether from social or financial perspectives. This may inconvenience some writers and readers, but then there is no constitutional right to convenience.

02-25-2012, 04:39 PM	#14
Fbone Is that a sandwich? Posts: 8,189 Karma: 100500000 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: Nook Glowlight Plus	Sounds like this decision originated with Paypal/Ebay's legal department. The prohibited subjects are probably illegal in some jurisdictions worldwide. Paypal being a worldwide company didn't want to involve itself in the transaction. Or as being the payment processor some may feel Paypal profits from, condones or encourages the sale of such material. It may be an image they wish to avoid.

02-25-2012, 04:48 PM	#15
fjtorres Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,732 Karma: 128354696 Join Date: May 2009 Location: 26 kly from Sgr A* Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000	Never mind censorship: this is a service provider telling their customers how to run their business. Everybody doing business with Paypal is now at risk of ebay telling them what they can or cannot sell. Viagra. Condoms. Yeast infection meds. What nnext? Who they can or cannot hire? I'm thinking Google payments and (yes) AMAZON Payments are licking their chops.

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