04-04-2009, 09:47 AM | #16 | |
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I'm afraid that I don't, and never will, accept, that your right to "privacy" permits you to break the law with impunity, which is what you appear to be saying that you have a "right" to do. Clearly the majority of French MP's do not believe that this law is "indefensible", or it could not have got through parliament? |
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04-04-2009, 09:56 AM | #17 | |||
zeldinha zippy zeldissima
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04-04-2009, 10:12 AM | #18 | |
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04-04-2009, 10:14 AM | #19 | |
zeldinha zippy zeldissima
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i think i need a countdown calendar myself. |
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04-04-2009, 10:45 AM | #20 | |
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Innocent? By what standard? With a government form that can make anything illegal with a mere vote? And allows ex-post-facto laws? Sorry, won't be visiting the UK, ever... |
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04-04-2009, 11:50 AM | #21 | |||||
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Just because something's already happening legally doesn't mean it is ethically right; nor that it is not open to misuse be it deliberate or accidental. Quote:
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04-04-2009, 12:10 PM | #22 |
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Permit me to ask you, then: if you do not accept logging of an IP address as prima facie evidence of illegal activities, what evidence would you accept?
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04-04-2009, 12:22 PM | #23 | |
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rather than persecuting individuals who may OR MAY NOT be engaging in illicit filesharing, assuming guilt rather than innocence on shaky evidence at best, and spending countless millions to set up a technically flawed and thoroughly unproductive system, the governement should be looking at better ways of getting money to the content creators and encourage new business models and new creation. it's important to remember that the law in question is actually called "Projet de loi favorisant la diffusion et la protection de la création sur internet" or "Proposed law to favorise the diffusion and protection of creation on the internet". i don't see any means in the current proposed implementation either to encourage *or* protect creation, only a lot of pointless (because it doesn't address any of the underlying causes) and expensive prosecution and harassment of individuals who may or may not have done anything wrong at all. |
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04-04-2009, 12:24 PM | #24 |
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I'd say finding an illegal file on someone's computer, found the old fashioned way, by getting a warrant would be sufficient evidence for me.
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04-04-2009, 12:26 PM | #25 | |
Holy S**T!!!
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All that someone has to do is say that you might be breaking the law. They don't have to prove anything, and *poof* you are disconnected. Can you appeal?? I suppose so, but you are essentially being asked to prove a negative, and meanwhile, you have no internet access ... and for some people, that might also mean no phone access, and no access to their business. You say you've got a 12 year old in the household that doesn't understand the law and downloaded something he ought not have? Tough. The internet connection is no more. Someone has a grudge against your family and makes an unsupported allegation? Tough, you try proving you didn't do it. And .... you just do without your internet connection while your online business goes down the tubes and you pay attorney's fees to prove you are innocent. Innocent people have everything to worry about with this law. If an "allegation" .... and I hope you understand what an allegation is, Harry, which means no hearing, just the allegation, gets you disconnected, then you are basically SOL. No hearing means nothing to appeal. No hearing means you don't even get a chance to protest your innocence. Allegation=Disconnection. That's the law as it is written. Are you sure you want to be happy that law might become the norm?? |
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04-04-2009, 12:26 PM | #26 | |
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Do you really want private companies (who main goal is to maintain their profit margins) to be investigating and deciding amongst themselves if someone deserves to have their internet connection terminated? Ip addresses can and indeed already are faked by various trackers out there already. |
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04-04-2009, 12:31 PM | #27 | |
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04-04-2009, 12:33 PM | #28 |
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If I may be allowed to insert a reply to the above question, I would recommend the US standard of evidence.
You have to provide a judge with information providing a "probable cause" of a crime. Then a warrant can be issued for a search. Mere activity cannot be construed as probable cause, as you cannot determine what the activity comprised of. Relevant example. I download a torrent of a movie. My IP address shows a large block of activity. Is it probable cause? No, as I could have downloaded, say, My Man Godfrey (1936), which is Public Domain in the US, or a friend's attempt at making a movie. or I may have used the torrent to download from a legitimate, for pay, site (think HULU, or maybe I want to watch the local news daily from my old hometown, via Slingbox). All legitimate, all high bandwidth. So activity alone is not adequate. Now if you want to track both IP addresses, prove that the only data the sending site is infringed information, or sucessfully seize the sending IP sites connection records, showing that illegal information was transmitted to my IP address, THEN you have "probable cause" for your warrent. Not until then. That's why the RIAA/MPAA haven't actually won a case past appeal. High standard? Absolutely. Does this allow crime to exist? Absolutely. But that's the price you pay for a free society. The other choice is the knock in the dark and the disapperance. Which is precisely what we are talking about for internet access in the new French Law. |
04-04-2009, 12:33 PM | #29 | |
zeldinha zippy zeldissima
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and ricky is right ; it's based on ALLEGATIONS and not PROOF. |
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04-04-2009, 12:35 PM | #30 | |
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