Is DRM necessary? Should publishers be concerned about piracy?

[pdam]

Here is another thought ... How will eBooks make it into mainstream Libraries without some form of DRM? Libraries respect publishers rights in the physical world - how can they do this in the electronic world without DRM?

I'm assuming that most people in this forum would like to be able to use their Iliad/eReader/whatever device at a public library (virtual or real) - right?

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by pdam

Here is another thought ... How will eBooks make it into mainstream Libraries without some form of DRM? Libraries respect publishers rights in the physical world - how can they do this in the electronic world without DRM?

I'm assuming that most people in this forum would like to be able to use their Iliad/eReader/whatever device at a public library (virtual or real) - right?

DRM in the library is a little different since you are supposed to be only renting the book for a limited time. So many of the DRM issues are moot.

However, library DRM has the same Tower of eBabel issue. I've seen several libraries try this - everything from proprietary readers that only run on Microsoft products (sometimes) to encrypted PDFs that can only be read on a computer.

So far, every library that I've encountered that has offered eBooks has not offered something that is usable by everyone. Some have done better than others, though. And the only portable device I ever saw supported was WinCE.

[VillageReader]

The Cleveland library uses "Overdrive" and Mobipocket. I think overdrive is what checks to verify the book is still checked out. Works just fine on Palm or WinCE devices (at least, I think it works on WinCE). They also use encrypted .pdf, also with the Overdrive overlay. http://dlc.clevnet.org/2FB7C35C-5AAC...en/Default.htm

[Snappy!]

Another perspective is perhaps from the Author's point of view, though perhaps in a limited sense. Newbie authors mostly have to convince publishers to publish their books while best-seller authors kinda have some muscle there.

In that context, would authors choose to have their content distributed with or without DRM? My take is that, they probably don't mind DRM or not, as long as their bottom line is not affected. Matter of fact, if using non DRM can be conclusively proven to increase bottom line, authors, and publishers for that matter, would take it up as well.

From a global point of view, I know for a fact that folks in China would not bat an eyelid to choose 'free' pirated copy over a paying copy, DRM or not. Of late, I got to know some Chinese nationals and they are blatantly using pirated content (music, video, books) without any remorse whatsoever.

Their reasoning is "Since I can duplicate it and use it, then its ok.". In a sense, it's to do more with the whole culture in China, where there is no civic-mindedness, whatsoever. I believe that they will simply choose the least path of resistance, meaning free copy. DRM or not is not the issue for them.

This is something that western publishers may want to look at when approaching Asian markets, especially China.

[VillageReader]

Agreed about China. At $1.50 an hour or so, books are pretty expensive.

In China, I suspect piracy is as at least much about poverty as mindset.

[NatCh]

My suspicious, capitalist, american mind also suspects that communism has some impact on the China situation -- when the government provides everything, and effectively owns everything, then nothing really belongs to anyone else.

Where would the concept of respecting the ownership rights of anyone even come up?

[Mambo]

Unfortunately DRM is needed and we should be happy with it.
DRM is not against the Pirates. There is no solution that can stop you if you really want, to scan or carry out any other means of reproducing and copying it.

DRM is to stop the average person, from copying or stealing books. The average person will want the book now, and he compares the effort of stealing (removing DRM or searching on the net) against the efforts of working and paying for the book. If he concludes that it is easier just to pay, then he will not steal. Furthermore, he is likely not practiced in removing DRM, so he will more likely buy.

So DRM ensures that you will not get it for free anyway. Either you pay with your money or with your effort and time to remove the DRM or get from an other source (can be very hard to find specific things on the internet).

What we rather need are widespread DRM formats and reader softwares available on all platforms.

[Bob Russell]

I wonder if those people who are getting pirated e-books are doing it because they don't want to pay for the book, or because they want to be able to use the book now and in the future without the DRM limitations and troubles?

I'm not sure, but I suspect it's almost universally the latter (which fits along with the argument of some that it's not about price, but about convenience, and that people will seek the easiest way to get ebooks, and actually would prefer to pay for them).

Also, because it takes a lot of hours for most of us to read a book, the price/hour of entertainment of books is very small. So I'm guessing that most people would probably not cringe as much when paying for a book as they would for music. That's a tougher argument to carry, but I think it's part of the dynamic for book buyers.

[radleyp]

"I don't tend to read physical books anymore." I simply cannot understand such statements, but then it's the book and not the way it's made available that counts for me. I think we are going overboard with this gadgetism, and losing sight of what's important, namely the book we want to read. If I want to read a book, then I read it: that it's available as an ebook (or not) is not the issue. I do not decide to read a book because it's in ebook form. I am currently reading 4 books, two of which are not available as ebooks. Should I not read those unavailable as ebooks, simply because they are not available as ebooks? So long as we focus on the reading device, and not the books available, we will delude ourselves into thinking that the Sony and Iliad and other readers to come are manna from heaven. If the Sony does not come ready with available books, I will not buy it (or any other such device). What has made ereader a success is the library it provides.

[Bob Russell]

RadleyP... Great comment!!! I've started a front page thread with a poll based on your thoughts. I'd love to hear what everyone thinks!

[VillageReader]

Originally Posted by radleyp

"I don't tend to read physical books anymore." .... What has made ereader a success is the library it provides.

Hmmm, looking at my notes:

September

Ebooks - 9
Audioboks - 4
Dead tree books - 2

August

Ebooks - 3
Audioboks - 3
Dead tree books - 3

July

Ebooks - 7
Audioboks - 4
Dead tree books - 6

(I think).

I have no idea what it means, other than it leads me to believe I get what I want in the format of convenience. Which is fine, provided I don't buy stuff multiple times - which I seem to be doing more of lately.

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by Mambo

Unfortunately DRM is needed and we should be happy with it.

How much is the Content Cartel paying you to shill for them here?

Originally Posted by Mambo

DRM is not against the Pirates. There is no solution that can stop you if you really want, to scan or carry out any other means of reproducing and copying it.

Exactly. So DRM cannot fulfull its stated goal: protection of content.

Originally Posted by Mambo

DRM is to stop the average person, from copying or stealing books.

Now you are off track. Since DRM cannot protect content, it's used to lock a person into a particular device or service. Not to prevent the average person from copying or stealing.

Also, DRM prevents the lawful owner from exercising his rights over a purchased product. When I purchase a pBook, I have the right to re-sell that book to anyone I choose. I do not have that right with an eBook with DRM.

Originally Posted by Mambo

The average person will want the book now, and he compares the effort of stealing (removing DRM or searching on the net) against the efforts of working and paying for the book. If he concludes that it is easier just to pay, then he will not steal. Furthermore, he is likely not practiced in removing DRM, so he will more likely buy.

You are absolutely correct! So when no one will sell an eBook of the latest Harry Potter story that runs on <insert your favorite eBook reader here>, people have no choice but to get a pirated version.

So to stop people from pirating, shouldn't publishers satisify the market that they know exists instead of purposely ignoring it?

Originally Posted by Mambo

What we rather need are widespread DRM formats and reader softwares available on all platforms.

In order for DRM to work, it must use a closed, proprietary reader for eBooks. That will never become widespread - for the simple reason that DRM is used to lock users into a particular device and a widespread reader will prevent that.

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

I wonder if those people who are getting pirated e-books are doing it because they don't want to pay for the book, or because they want to be able to use the book now and in the future without the DRM limitations and troubles?

You want to read Some Book. It's not an eBook format today. But you see a passable pirated version on Usenet. So you download it, put it on your favorite reader and read it. You like it, so you go to the local bookstore and purchase a paper copy - to make sure that the author gets rewarded for writing such a good book.

Later, another Good Book comes out. You want to read it on your new eBook Reader, but the only eBook version of it that's available doesn't support your reader, is DRMed up the wazoo, and costs more than Amazon.com sells the pBook for. So, once again, you go to Usenet, pick up the pirated version and buy the (cheaper) version from Amazon to make sure that the author is rewarded.

More time goes by. Publishers moan that no one buys eBooks. But, once again, when you look for an eBook version of the Next Good Book, you can't find one that offers good value. There's some issue: the closed, proprietary format isn't supported by your reader, the price of the eBook exceeds the price of the pBook.

How many times will you keep buying the (what seems pointless) pBook before you simply "forget" one day and don't notice?

There's where the problem is. The longer it takes for the publishers to "get it", the more apt people will be to simply pirate the book and say "to heck with the official channels" and not feel at least guilty.

[pdam]

This is an interesting and diverse thread!

Snappy - you talked about the authors view ... authors have always been a very diverse bunch - you have people catering for popular taste working for the greenback - people who want to contribute something to the greater good, people who want to be heard and people who simply want to see their name in print!
rlauzon - the tower of eBabel thing ...you're right I remember the British librabry used a PDF librbary trial a couple of years ago (I can't remember what came of it) ths was the most diverse I saw - format and public assured storage is the key in this aspect, right?
Rapleyp and villagereader - this is an interesting thread ... just to expand it a little more - what about total tree- and e-ware? If you look at another couple of parameters

1. - what would be your %age time reading book type material comapred to your non-book type reading? (e.g. newspapers/newsites, blogs, magazines, journals, forums Vs books ebooks)?
2. - What is your %age time reading all electronic material (both online and offline) Vs all paper reading?

Answers would find out how important is the analogy of a book still is and how important the medium (e or p) is too you?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

I've been reading this thread with great interest. As an author and self-publisher, the DRM issue has had a major impact on my efforts to sell.

My goal as an author and publisher is to expose the maximum number of people to my writing. Since I have no money for printing books, e-books were a natural choice for me. But I have to accept the fact that my e-book market is smaller than the print market, and even smaller because I write (mostly) Sci-Fi. So I desired to provide added incentive to buy my books.

Avoiding the use of DRM therefore became a business decision (along with low price and multiple formats) to entice readers, or maybe more specifically, to keep from driving them away. I accept the possibility of buyers swapping or even copying my books, in the hope that increased exposure to my books (even in illegal methods) may result in word-of-mouth interest in my work, and generate more legitimate sales.

That was the operating theory behind my self-publishing e-books.

Unfortunately, I have not seen large sales of my books as yet, nor have I seen much if any evidence of word-of-mouth activity, despite practicing this theory for the past year. So I cannot say how effective the theory is. Or-- maybe I can make this conclusion: The theory MAY be valid, but does not prove effective for unknown, unpopular, or just plain bad authors.