Apple practices......

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

Not that I disagree with you...but how dare you try and be honest and fair about a world wide and multi-company issue??!

He wasn't trying to be honest and fair. Take the comment about enforcing a 40 hour week as an example. Who is he kidding? Apple's code of conduct requests that suppliers don't go over 60 hours per week, and that was what they weren't able to even get close to.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

He wasn't trying to be honest and fair. Take the comment about enforcing a 40 hour week as an example. Who is he kidding? Apple's code of conduct requests that suppliers don't go over 60 hours per week, and that was what they weren't able to even get close to.

Whatever. I wasn't arguing with you.

The point is that there are more companies than Apple that engage in these practices. By trying to ignore that point and focus on apple, you are putting your head in the sand.

You like you head in the sand? Fine. Keep it there, it doesn't bother me. But if you think the sub $200 Kindle Fire is made with ethical working conditions...I have a bridge in NYC that I want to sell you. You don't even need to visit. I'll take paypal.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

The point is that there are more companies than Apple that engage in these practices. By trying to ignore that point and focus on apple, you are putting your head in the sand.

I'll ask again: which company had over 100 people die in the manufacturing process because of the use of toxic solutions? Which company had a factory explosion after ignoring reports and a previous explosion caused by the same manufacturing process?

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

I'll ask again: which company had over 100 people die in the manufacturing process because of the use of toxic solutions? Which company had a factory explosion after ignoring reports and a previous explosion caused by the same manufacturing process?

Wow.


I won't try to explain it to you, it's more than obvious you don't get it.

Carry on.

[ProfCrash]

Just repeat the mantra "Apple is evil" and you are good.

Clearly everyone else is running better factories (never mind that we know Amazon gets components from the same companies as Apple) and that is because the other companies like making a profit less then Apple and are applying a ton of pressure so that the workers in those factories are making good wages and are not dying from poor handeling of chemicals and other issues.

It can't be that people are focused on Apple because they are a big dog and so that is where the reporters are looking. Or that due to a lack of time or investigative reporting people have not looked into other electronics factories associated with other companies.

It can't be that Apple is only one of the bad guys in the picture and happens to be the easiest to expose or the largest target because of its name and stock price.

It has to be that Apple is bad, HP is good, and everyone else (comonly known as "Other companies") are doing just fine because there has not been a massive effort made to show how awful the conditions are in those factories.

Just like all of our food is harvested by well paid, well trained, individuals who are there of their own free will.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I won't try to explain it to you, it's more than obvious you don't get it.

Do you only explain things to people that understand what you mean?

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

Just repeat the mantra "Apple is evil" and you are good.

Clearly everyone else is running better factories (never mind that we know Amazon gets components from the same companies as Apple) and that is because the other companies like making a profit less then Apple and are applying a ton of pressure so that the workers in those factories are making good wages and are not dying from poor handeling of chemicals and other issues.

It can't be that people are focused on Apple because they are a big dog and so that is where the reporters are looking. Or that due to a lack of time or investigative reporting people have not looked into other electronics factories associated with other companies.

It can't be that Apple is only one of the bad guys in the picture and happens to be the easiest to expose or the largest target because of its name and stock price.

It has to be that Apple is bad, HP is good, and everyone else (comonly known as "Other companies") are doing just fine because there has not been a massive effort made to show how awful the conditions are in those factories.

Just like all of our food is harvested by well paid, well trained, individuals who are there of their own free will.

And don't forget: (Other than Apple) They are your friends. *nods*

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

It can't be that people are focused on Apple because they are a big dog and so that is where the reporters are looking.

No, it's the deaths and the explosions that had reporters looking at Apple.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

Do you only explain things to people that understand what you mean?

I only explain things to people who really are asking questions. Not to people who already have their minds made up and are only looking to forward their own POV. I'm sure you have a straw-man all built up, waiting to spring it...but this line of conversation is boring. Yes, yes *sigh* we all know... Apple is Evil.

*cue scary music*

Apple is coming to steal all the children, too. *nods*


Thank you for enlightening me.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

I'll ask again: which company had over 100 people die in the manufacturing process because of the use of toxic solutions? Which company had a factory explosion after ignoring reports and a previous explosion caused by the same manufacturing process?

Foxconn.
A company that makes goods for many different electronics firms.

[ProfCrash]

I see, so because Apple was connected to a factory where some bad stuff happened that the factory owner, Chinese government, and local leaders were not able to hide from the international media, Apple is evil.

So the fact that the same practices are happening at other factories that have not exploded, or been reported as having exploded, or had reports of the deaths is ok to overlook.

All we are saying, is that yes it is bad that Apple products are made in these conditions and it would be good for those conditions to change.

We add to that, Apple is not the only company who is supporting these practices, they are simply the biggest one who has been investigated.

I add (I won't speak for others on this one) that if we want Apple, and the other companies to change their behavior, then consumers have to stop buying those products. As long as we buy those products, Apple and Amazon (who has been tied to many of the same factories as Apple) they have no financial reason to try and change anything. Given that corporations are more interested in profit then ethics, they are not going to pressure anyone to change squat until their profits are hurt.

Nike and assorted companies did not put pressure for the work environment to change until people stopped, or more accuretly slowed down, buying their products. When it became a PR problem and an economic problem, they made an effort to change.

Apple is not going to change squat because it is morally right. Apple will change things when they are not making as much money. Same goes for Amazon and other electronic companies.

[murraypaul]

The president of the Fair Labor Association, Auret van Heerden, is already suggesting that conditions at Foxconn facilities are better than those in many other factories in the country, according to Reuters. The FLA is just beginning a study of Apple's top eight suppliers in China, of which Foxconn is the company's main manufacturing partner. After his initial visits to Foxconn, van Heerden is claiming that "The facilities are first-class; the physical conditions are way, way above average of the norm."

Read more: http://www.electronista.com/articles...#ixzz1mTzoYjzw

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I only explain things to people who really are asking questions.

I was really asking questions. I was asked for examples to support my statements, I gave them. I ask for examples to support the statement that other companies are causing as many deaths as Apple and the only reply I get is the accusations that I'm targeting Apple and I'm not investigating things properly.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

So the fact that the same practices are happening at other factories that have not exploded, or been reported as having exploded, or had reports of the deaths is ok to overlook.

What makes you think that the same practices are happening at other factories?

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

As long as we buy those products, Apple and Amazon (who has been tied to many of the same factories as Apple) they have no financial reason to try and change anything. Given that corporations are more interested in profit then ethics, they are not going to pressure anyone to change squat until their profits are hurt.

Given that I never bought anything from Apple or Amazon, they wouldn't exactly notice if I continue not buying anything from them.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

I was really asking questions. I was asked for examples to support my statements, I gave them. I ask for examples to support the statement that other companies are causing as many deaths as Apple and the only reply I get is the accusations that I'm targeting Apple and I'm not investigating things properly.

Check your zipper, your bias is showing.
"causing as many deaths as Apple"?
Apple do not operate the factory, they buy products it produces.

http://www.electronista.com/articles....of.factories/

Apple on Monday took the step of asking the Fair Labor Association to orchestrate "special voluntary audits" of its last-stage suppliers. The investigations, which include Foxconn plants in Chengdu and Shenzhen, began the same day. They include both interviews with "thousands" of workers over conditions as well as inspections and document reviews.
[...]
Apple isn't the only company that may benefit from the investigation if it catches and forces changes to labor practices that have often included excessive overtime, underaged workers, and unsafe conditions. Foxconn also supplies Dell, HP, Microsoft, Nintendo, Nokia, Sony, and others in the industry.

So where are those other companies? Are they also arranging for inspections?