Nokia n810 or Ipod Touch?

[bbusybookworm]

Originally Posted by GntlmnBndt

Another difference that interested me is the screen. I understand the screen on the N810 is easier to read in daylight. Can anyone confirm?

The Bandit

Opps I missed that.

yes I believe the n810 has a daylight viewable screen, but someone with a n810 should be able to confirm.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by bbusybookworm

Opps I missed that.

yes I believe the n810 has a daylight viewable screen, but someone with a n810 should be able to confirm.

It works in daylight at least but I have not seen a N800 so I could not compare it.

[bbusybookworm]

Originally Posted by tompe

It works in daylight at least but I have not seen a N800 so I could not compare it.

The N800 has bog standard LCD, so Is not that usable in direct sunlight unless the backlight is at maximum and even then only just.

If there is a way to improve visibility that I'm unaware of it as I've only had it for a couple of weeks.

[Azayzel]

Seems the discussion has pretty much turned to the Nokia, but I thought I'd still toss in my 2 cents...

While I haven't used the Nokia, I cannot offer a viable opinion except that a) it's going to be a lot heavier & larger than the Touch, b) it will probably run hotter, and c) it's battery life won't match the Touch either (though it's been suggested that you can buy a few extra batteries and swap out when low). If you're looking for the sheer number of file formats, you can't go wrong with the Nokia, after all, it is a full-fledged, though slightly neutered laptop.

On the other had, you can do pretty much whatever you like on the Touch provided you can find the source and compile it. There have been a ton of apps made for the Touch since even before the App Store, so development will continue on both sides of the fence. You mentioned an App for viewing files etc. on the Touch, I use an App call "Files" that IMO is the best bar-none. I've used several PDF viewers but the one in Files lets you place bookmarks, remembers where you left off, switches portrait to landscape and is pretty well done. It also allows you to view DOC, PPT, XLS, RTF, HTML, etc. There is also a comic viewer available that lets you view comics in cbz or cbr archive formats (one of them even has a page change feature where you tilt left or right to go back or forward in the book. Stanza supports LIT, Kindle, Mobi, PalmDoc, RTF, DOC, etc., though they have to be DRM-free. It will soon to be available for Windows systems, but already works with Mac.

The Touch is also your entertainment system when you're not reading; i.e., videos/music that remember where you left off (good for audiobooks, movies, and podcasts) and there are a ton of games on it that are ideal for a few minutes at a time. The PIM features of the Touch will sync with you PC's PIM software; i.e., Outlook, so you don't have to worry about keeping things sync'd between multiple PC's/laptops.

Ultimately, I like the Touch for it's small, portable size. I can, and do, carry it with me everywhere and use it all the time, not just for reading. A new version was just announced that has improved battery life, a brighter screen (not sure about this, but some people are reporting this), added speaker, integrated Nike+ (if you need it, I'm not sold yet), hard-key volume control, and the support for the new headphones with the built-in mic; it was actually just awarded CNet's Editors Choice Award.

Lastly, don't forget about instant-on as opposed to waiting for the Nokia, or other Internet Tablet/UMPC, to boot.

[wayrad]

For what it's worth, I do not notice any heat buildup with my n800 (closely related to the n810). Typically, n800/810s are left in standby mode (display and touchscreen turned off) when not in use, so boot time is not a problem either. That said, I find my Zodiac a much more ergonomically friendly device for reading, even though the display isn't as nice. YMMV.

[rjh]

Originally Posted by Azayzel

Seems the discussion has pretty much turned to the Nokia, but I thought I'd still toss in my 2 cents...

While I haven't used the Nokia, I cannot offer a viable opinion except that a) it's going to be a lot heavier & larger than the Touch, b) it will probably run hotter, and c) it's battery life won't match the Touch either (though it's been suggested that you can buy a few extra batteries and swap out when low). If you're looking for the sheer number of file formats, you can't go wrong with the Nokia, after all, it is a full-fledged, though slightly neutered laptop.

...

Lastly, don't forget about instant-on as opposed to waiting for the Nokia, or other Internet Tablet/UMPC, to boot.

I can confirm (as a Nokia 770 and Touch user) that:

a) the Nokia is slightly bigger and slightly heavier than the Touch - hardly surprising; you do get a bigger display.

b) the Nokia doesn't run hot at all (and certainly not when reading books, which isn't very processor intensive).

c) battery life isn't too bad - about 5-6+ hours in my experience.

d) Nokia is instant-on, and will sit idle for days or a week or so. Just touch the screen and it comes to life instantaneously. Of course, just like the Touch, you can turn it completely off (and I'll bet that nobody does that to their ipod, they probably don't even know how) but the ipod takes just as long to start as the Nokia.

[Azayzel]

Ahh... I see now, I had it all wrong thinking the Nokia was an actual UMPC, when in all actuality it's simply an evolved PDA with a slightly larger screen! Guess that changes a few of my comparison points.

1. Size - 110 x 61.8 x 8 vs 135 x 78 x 14 (mm) or 4.3 x 0.3 x 2.4 vs. 5 x 0.6 x 2.8 (in)
2. Weight - 120 vs 185 (grams) or .26 vs .41 (lbs)
3. Screen - 3.5 HVGA (320x480) vs 4.1 WVGA (800x480)
4. OS - OS X vs. Nokia Customized Linux
5. Storage - 8/16/32GB vs 128MB (the N810 has 2GB)
6. WiFi - Both do 802.11b/g

The fact that the Nokia is running a customized Linux vs Windows XP or Vista as I had thought changes a lot, though not necessarily for the better. Where XP/Vista has a seemingly limitless supply of software available, Linux is limited to what people want to develop & support in the community. While there's quite a bit of custom software you can get for the Nokia, the same can be said for the Touch; ultimately since they are both Linux-based, you may see the same apps available for each as interest/developers get involved.

Expandability - You're pretty much stuck with the built-in memory of whatever model Touch you choose, but you can have up to 32GB out the gate. The Nokia is really limited on default space, but you can update on-the-fly with RS-MMC cards (maybe the newer model supports SD, not sure about SD-HC though). You're stuck with Apple's OS with the Touch, while there are a few custom OS's people have put together for the Nokia.

Power Usage - Since they're both pretty much PDA's, they support instant-on and have close to the same power-on usage times. Heat generation was originally a concern, but since learning more about the N770, I see they're both running microprocessors that don't use too much energy or generate heat like the current line of UMPC's.

Price point - Both can be had for close to the same price, so that's not really a factor.

I guess what is drawing many mobile readers to the Nokia is FBReader & a higher-res screen, I also noted that it supports a few more media formats. Would I personally get a Nokia? No, I like the dimensions of the Touch and what it can do suits me just fine. The Nokia would have been nice a few years ago to replace and ailing PDA, but it's not an UMPC as I originally had thought and wouldn't even be a consideration for me now. As I said earlier, I'm not trying to *sell* the iPod Touch, I simply thing any fairly large purchase should be looked at from all angles prior to taking the plunge and shouldn't be simply based on biased opinions. I try and get physical with a new device before I make the purchase, but when I can't sometimes I just have to take the plunge and experience buyer's-remorse after the fact.

Here's some links to reviews & more info about each:
Nokia 770 - Specs OS Info CNet Review
Apple iPod Touch -Specs OS Info CNet Review

BTW Thanks for helping me clear up the whole misconception about what the N770/800/810 is, I am enlightened!

[JeffElkins]

Originally Posted by bbusybookworm

The N800 has bog standard LCD, so Is not that usable in direct sunlight unless the backlight is at maximum and even then only just.

If there is a way to improve visibility that I'm unaware of it as I've only had it for a couple of weeks.

I'm coming up on a year with my N800 and IMHO it's next to useless outdoors. Still love it though...

[wayrad]

The n8xo isn't a PDA either - no out-of-the-box PIM management or synchronization capabilities, and the third party options are not really up to snuff so far (compared to any Palm device, for example). It's usually described as a mobile Internet device.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by wayrad

The n8xo isn't a PDA either - no out-of-the-box PIM management or synchronization capabilities, and the third party options are not really up to snuff so far (compared to any Palm device, for example). It's usually described as a mobile Internet device.

I call my N810 a small linux laptop. I think it really is more than a mobile internet device. A unit I can log in to remotely is an ordinary computer.

[wayrad]

Originally Posted by tompe

I call my N810 a small linux laptop. I think it really is more than a mobile internet device. A unit I can log in to remotely is an ordinary computer.

Absolutely - it can be more. I was just referring to the primary emphasis, the things Nokia made it easy to do out-of-the-box and emphasized in their product literature. The expansion of its capabilities, whle fun, is largely driven by the user community and requires some interest and expertise to really get into. (My interest tends to come and go, as does my frustration tolerance...)

[Dren]

I picked up a N800 over the weekend, great little device. Also runs a Palm emulator so i can use ereader books - very happy with it.

D

[rjh]

Originally Posted by Azayzel

Ahh... I see now, I had it all wrong thinking the Nokia was an actual UMPC, when in all actuality it's simply an evolved PDA with a slightly larger screen!

The Nokia tablets aren't PDAs. In fact, they'd make an appalling PDA, even worse than Windows Mobile devices.

One of the things I've noticed with new classes of devices, is that people have trouble classifying them into something they know. For example, the most common criticism of the Nokia is for things that it wasn't designed to do - the Nokia tablets get criticised because they don't have any PDA features, because they aren't phones, because they (initially, anyway) don't have cameras, or because they don't have a physical keyboard so don't behave like a laptop.

I find a similar response to Tablet PCs - people can't see the advantage of having less of the functionality they know about (ie, physical keyboard) even though it is surpassed by the functionality they haven't experienced (a digitiser display, smaller size, lighter weight).

Exactly the same problem exists for e-book readers; people see the price and say they can buy a laptop for the same price. They don't have the experience so don't realise they are totally missing the point.

Even the ipod suffered from the same problem when it was first launched, in the context of people's then current experience with portable CD players, MD players etc. The Touch still suffers from it, to some degree. Until people use the touchscreen (and for many, it will be their first touchscreen device) they don't get the potential of the product at all.

I'd suggest that this is going to be a big factor slowing down the initial uptake of dedicated e-readers. People will compare them to phones, laptops, ipods etc, look at the features they *don't* have, and totally miss the point.

[Azayzel]

I agree that people tend to classify things in contexts that they know, hence the reason I saw the Nokia as a PDA. Why? Chiefly due to it's size & the limited functions provided out of the box. The simple fact that it can be upgraded by the community no more makes it a PC or laptop any more than can be said for WinMo devices. Maybe saying it's strictly a PDA is a misnomer, even for WinMo devices, as you can add quite a bit more functionality given the right amount of motivation. Perhaps a better term is Palm-top PC. Using Linux in a hand-held device isn't new, the Sharp Zaurus was doing this quite a bit before Nokia came out with this platform.

Perhaps what's really changed is the use of the acronym PDA. The context I tend to use it in is a small handheld device that can fit in your pocket which provides more functions than a simple phone or media player, though I believe it should also have the basic calendar, notepad, and phone book functions. One thing that is tough getting used to is the plethora of new acronyms that comes out every time a new device comes out. Calling something a Mobile Internet Device, MID, really cubby-holes it into a tiny niche leading people to believe that's all it should be used for, though that might just be the case.

RJH: Please don't offense or think that I'm meaning to argue with you, I just wanted to clarify why I classified it as such. After re-reading your post, I also saw that you just wanted people to think about the usage of the term and other new terms. Thanks for making me think about it.

[DaleDe]

I agree. Sometimes you have to think out of the box. My wife was originally opposed to the Microwave oven because it didn't replace anything she already had and she didn't need another gadget in the kitchen. After she go one she would never go back! Similarly TIVO had and still has a tough sell among people who have never experienced it.

Dale