PC sales Suffer Biggest Slump in years

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

The machine I got (a netbook) had 64 bit Windows 7 installed. There was no reason not to install the 32 and 16 bit emulator, except that Microsoft was trying to <force> people to abandon their old software and buy new software (from Microsoft). Oracle's Virtual Box proved that.

I think it's more of a case of Microsoft not wanting to maintain the old compatibility layer, and wanting to charge extra for their virtualization products.

I am a bit surprised that anyone would run 16-bit Windows applications though (well, outside of very specialized applications). Windows software of that era was barely tolerable. Mac software of that era, well that's a different story. I was quite good and I can understand people running it until this day.

Computers come and go - but software will run as long as something can execute the instruction set.

How true. I used to do a lot via emulation, but pretty much gave up on it when open source applications started dominating my life. Price is a huge deterrent to upgrading, but once the price is gone keeping modern is easy enough. Still, I miss a lot of that old software.

[Greg Anos]

- I don't, because I still have it.

I could run a 68XXX Mac emulator, but I don't own any software, and I don't want to pirate it.

I can't run the Microsoft Virtual PC 2004, though It would let me run any software that didn't require external ports all the way back to DOS 1.0...

In reality, if it does what I want, who cares how old it is. I could run Microsoft Office 2000 (the last before the "phone home" software) if I wanted to, but I hate the <bleeping> pop-ups all the time. Besides Word 97 outputs HTML, which 2000 doesn't. I will not run "phone home" software at all.

But things like PowerDVD 5 work fine (came with an external DVD drive), and calibre and sigil and an old version of Excel, and all sorts of old games (I don't need fancy graphics, and I no longer have the time or interest in long continuing games). I'd rather take the upgrade costs and spend another night in Florida in the winter with it.

But that's just me...

[kacir]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

You're not seriously going to tell me that you're going to install Linux onto a computer, only to have it run VirtualBox with Windows XP inside it, using the virtual machine as your main operating system?

It is a great system. You have to take into account that Mint Linux is quite capable to cover the vast majority of your connection to the outside world. And you can run your paid-for old software in a virtual machine indefinitely. If you severely limit the connections to/from the inside of virtual machine you can skip patches and antivirus. That alone will make up for having to run in VM. You also have to take into account that modern processors have virtualization support, so virtual machines are surprisingly fast nowadays. Windows 2000 with MSWord 2000 in a Virtual Box from Oracle (hosted on Mint Linux) can start faster than a startup time of MSWord 2007 on the same-spec machine with XP or Vista.

Running legacy stuff inside VM in an old version of OS doesn't have to mean you are locked inside with an old Netscape browser.


Friend of mine runs FreeBSD with a spartan Window Manager as the main OS and runs all the work-related stuff in virtual machines. Works like a charm, even on a relatively old hardware. It is even good enough to install the newest Visual Studio for development of software.

Something similar is also done on a much larger scale on corporate level on "big" servers. They run virtual machines on bare-bone machines.

I was seriously considering similar setup when I purchased this i7 half a year ago. I settled for a Mint Linux, because it is still too much hassle to run virtual machine on a bare-bone hardware if you do not have access to a corporate-level resources. And Mint Linux covers the vast majority of my needs.

[Greg Anos]

One other feature. Once you've got your virtual machine built. It's ridiculously simple (and fast) to import it into the host PC. No more 30 min to 2 hours system builds....

[forsooth]

My next purchase will raise PC profits.

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

One other feature. Once you've got your virtual machine built. It's ridiculously simple (and fast) to import it into the host PC. No more 30 min to 2 hours system builds....

Another nice trick is to separate virtual machines by function. For example: one for work, one for online use, and one for play. And you only have to build the base system once in the process. For the online one, if something goes wrong, it can usually be rolled back to an old snapshot with minimal effort.

Alas, that sort of thing is better suited for desktops since you can shove in enough RAM to run multiple operating systems concurrently. Plus desktop components seem to be significant faster than their mobile components even when the product names look similar.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by frahse

WAIT!

More RAVINGS?!

You were carrying on about June 1 and look what that got you!

Now you are carrying on about the END of JUNE?!

Don't you just feel a little tired?

Just sip a little more lemonade and lose all this frenzy...

It is summer.

I was right about the iPad 5. It was released on June the 1st—in spirit. People thought I was mistaken only because they expected a physical manifestation of the iPad 5 on that date.

As for the latter part of June being the target for the Windows 8.1 update; that's the word on the street, for which I assume no responsibility.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

Another nice trick is to separate virtual machines by function. For example: one for work, one for online use, and one for play.

I did exactly this when I was in university. Because we used a HUGE bunch of software, different for each subject, I created a virtual machine for each one. It was also a nice way to avoid conflicts.

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

As for the latter part of June being the target for the Windows 8.1 update; that's the word on the street, for which I assume no responsibility.

Before you jump into that update, keep in mind that it is a preview version. Here is some more information on what it means, and advice on installing it:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/w...f-156fa18916b4

(Keep in mind that source is a forum though, being Microsoft centric, the people there are bound to have a better idea of what's going on.)

[danskmacabre]

I predict that Desktop style PCs will make somewhat of a comeback.

Of people who I personally know who were diehard console fans, many are going back to PCs.
Partly as some were not happy with the limitations of the Xbox one.

But also as the DRM on PCs is often a lot more consumer friendly.
I would add this is not so much with the big game publishers, which unfortunately often have a lot of restrictive DRM, but there's a LOT of indie publishers on the rise in the PC platform and they are becoming a lot more popular as well.

That and whilst I love using a tablet for reading PDFs, email and so on, they're pretty die with games in general.
A desktop PC is far superior and more cost effective really, especially if you build your own PC, which I do.

PCs are upgradeable, which Tablets and consoles are not. I have a couple of PCs, one brand new one I built and my secondary one is about 6 years old. I've changed the video card once in that time and it runs perfectly well. I expect it to runs for a few more years at least.

I DO think Windows 8 contributed to the decline of the Windows Desktop PC somewhat, regardless of whether it's any good or not. I've not really used Windows 8 myself and I decided with my recent new PC build to get Windows 7, so I can't judge either way if Windows 8 deserves the bad press.

Another point is it's easy just to plug your PC into a HD TV now as well, so you can play on your PC like a console on a big TV. Which looks great. In the past it wasn't so practical to do this.
If you use Steam ( a platform to buy PC games and play in a Windows PC) it has specific functionality to support this connect to TV mode.

All in all Desktop PCs are just more powerful, more versatile, more cost effective and less restrictive than the other devices, which I think people are starting to realise more and more.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

Before you jump into that update, keep in mind that it is a preview version. Here is some more information on what it means, and advice on installing it:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/w...f-156fa18916b4

(Keep in mind that source is a forum though, being Microsoft centric, the people there are bound to have a better idea of what's going on.)

Thanks for that link, BWinmill.

Once the final versions of Windows 8.1 are available, after their release to manufacturing, those who have downloaded the preview ... all their apps must be reinstalled, Niehaus said.

...Windows 8 users who do not install the preview build and opt instead to go straight from Windows 8/Windows RT to Windows 8.1 will not have to reinstall their apps. All settings, data and apps will carry over, a spokesperson said....

It seems the only advantage early adopters have is bragging rights, a lot more hassle, and the potential to be the first to encounter any potential problems of 8.1. I think I'll pass.

...

I do miss the way the desktop system operated before Windows 8. I liked the way I could quickly open several Notepads simultaneously and jot down ideas and notes while doing other things. Under Win 8 if you try to open a new Notepad you're simply returned to the one you have already opened. There's a workaround, of course. You can find a saved Notepad file in MyDocuments, open it and from there select to open a new file, but those extra steps are a pain in the behind. Likewise I used to frequently watch videos in one side of the screen while playing games on the other side of the screen. You can't do that with Windows 8; the games take over the entire screen. These are small issues but irritating. In their efforts to make PCs more like tablets, Microsoft has introduced many of the limitations of tablets into the desktop.

Well, 8.1 is coming, and perhaps things will improve.

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

It seems the only advantage early adopters have is bragging rights, a lot more hassle, and the potential to be the first to encounter any potential problems of 8.1. I think I'll pass.

Pretty much. From what I've read, 8.1 doesn't even provide that many features to justify the hassle. From what I've read, 8.1 doesn't even provide that many features to justify the long development cycle.

I liked the way I could quickly open several Notepads simultaneously and jot down ideas and notes while doing other things.

You made me curious. A faster way to work around it is to pin Notepad to the taskbar. If you want a new Notepad window, right click on it's taskbar icon and click Notepad (i.e. the top menu item). Using a start menu replacement works too. I think that adding the Notepad icon to the desktop would also work.

Likewise I used to frequently watch videos in one side of the screen while playing games on the other side of the screen. You can't do that with Windows 8; the games take over the entire screen.

Solving that problem takes a bit more effort. The first thing you do is acquire an ICBM. Then you learn how to use it. Finally you target it on Redmond, Washington. Note: I do not suggest using this method if you actually live anywhere near Redmond.

Alas, Microsoft removed the games that ran on the legacy desktop. You can probably find replacements though.

[Fluribus]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

You can opt out. There are plenty of start menu add-ons.

Besides, I don't think the new UI is the problem. Discoverability is the problem. For example: there is no visual indication on how to return to the start screen from legacy or modern application. Fix that, and I'll bet that most people will stop grumbling about the loss of the start menu. Then again, those aren't the only problems with discoverability. The charms bar is used to access a lot of important stuff, but it is out of sight and out of mind until you activate it. Even the login screen is one of those head scratchers. It's pretty and all, but you wouldn't know what it was for until you jabbed at the keyboard or twiddled the mouse.

So no, I don't think the problem is that Microsoft tried to foist a new UI on its users. I think the problem is that Microsoft tried to foist a poorly designed UI on its users. Adding to the appeal of the poor design are the limitations. (It's a first generation product, of course it's going to be incomplete. Why did Microsoft thing it was time to make it the primary UI?) While it sounds like Windows 8.1 is going to solve some of that, it doesn't go far enough. In fact it's fixing less than independent developers managed to fix prior to the official release of Windows 8. Maybe Microsoft should look at why it's development model is so slow and unresponsive.

Folks like Stardock deserve the money they'll make. I'd be willing to pay them, but I refuse to pay Microsoft for an OS that requires me to buy an add-on to restore the functionality that I want.

Microsoft is also drawing my ire in other areas. I loathe Xbox One. I don't like the push toward subscriptions for Office.

I don't play games on PC any more due to the restrictive DRM. So I'm seeing no need to stick with Windows for my next desktop.

[Kirtai]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

You made me curious. A faster way to work around it is to pin Notepad to the taskbar. If you want a new Notepad window, right click on it's taskbar icon and click Notepad (i.e. the top menu item).

If you middle click on a taskbar icon it immediately opens a new instance of the program. No need for menu navigation.

[SeaKing]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

People thought I was mistaken only because they expected a physical manifestation of the iPad 5 on that date.

I would advise to keep an eye on the sky, and if there is a cloud at all don't go out. I think there is a good chance of a lightening strike on your position for your slippy slippery sideways talking ways!