Amazon Kindle might be the worst thing that could happen to e-books?

[Aenea]

Originally Posted by tirsales

1. WHY THE HELL a new format? Mobipocket is nice, why not keep this? This would allow more people to read their books - people who already own a Reader would either buy the Kindle (no matter of the DRM/Format) or won't, it wouldn't cut down their Kindle-sales but would increase their book sales.

It's NOT a new format. It's plain old mobipocket with a custom DRM which is also supported in the current version in use on other devices. The iLiad for instance does have code to decrypt the custom DRM, but misses some extra information (the 'custom' part, just an extra integer). This extra step is so simple the code in the iLiad can actually be patched so it works... My decrypt utility can now handle this as well, but I can not distribute it since it would again contain copyrighted code...

[airlik]

Originally Posted by CommanderROR

... They give you ebooks and they store them for you on their server. Now, let's assume you buy the Kindle V2 next year, then I'm pretty sure that you'll be able to use your old books again. Amazon would make sure of that.

While it's not nice to be bound to one provider, it is a system that works quite well as long as the provider is big and can stay in business for a long time. Amazon is such a provider and so is Apple. The iTunes store does the same thing for Tunes that the Kindle store does for books.

Just a comment on that... I had a hard drive crash recently, about a week after iTunes went iTunes Plus and I finally decided to buy music from them since I felt I actually OWNED it then, in the same way I OWNED my CDs. Anyway, I'm on a 2-week backup schedule... bought lots of tunes... drive crashed before next backup. It was ugly. One of my concerns was the music I had recently purchased but that wasn't on my backup. I searched the Apple web site and lo! - you get to download it once. End of story. If there's a problem, even though it's DRM-free, even though you have the same iPod and the same user ID and password, you cannot download more than once something you paid for - company policy. Now, happily they let me download it all again once I explained my plight and went throught their customer service folks despite all their printed warnings that I was doomed.... but... in my mind, paying for and downloading DRM stuff is like going to see a movie - enjoy it while you can, but it'll likely be a distant memory in the not-so-distant future. I have NEVER lost a book, and I have hundreds (thousands?). eBooks I'm pretty much treating as write-offs if they have DRM. Once the keys are gone/lost/stolen/outdated, the file is useless, and you are at the mercy of the people you bought the file from.

For the record, I DO buy DRM stuff from Sony Connect... but only stuff that I know I'll only read once and never come back to for reference.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by airlik

I have NEVER lost a book, and I have hundreds (thousands?). eBooks I'm pretty much treating as write-offs if they have DRM. Once the keys are gone/lost/stolen/outdated, the file is useless, and you are at the mercy of the people you bought the file from.

There is one rather fundamental difference between music and eBooks. Music tends to be listened to repeatedly, but people tend not to re-read most books, so it doesn't actually matter particularly if the book can be re-read in 5 years time.

As I've said before, if I spend $10 on a book, I regard that as $10 of immediate reading pleasure, like spending $10 on a night at the movies. I don't think of it as a "lifetime investment".

[fugsly]

Originally Posted by HarryT

There is one rather fundamental difference between music and eBooks. Music tends to be listened to repeatedly, but people tend not to re-read most books, so it doesn't actually matter particularly if the book can be re-read in 5 years time.

As I've said before, if I spend $10 on a book, I regard that as $10 of immediate reading pleasure, like spending $10 on a night at the movies. I don't think of it as a "lifetime investment".

I re-read books over and over and over and over...

I've even re-read books i hate just to have something to read. If I spend $10 on a book then I would expect to own that book and be able to read it in 5, 10, 15 years time.

An ebook however is something different than a book precisely because it's electronic. Technology changes quickly and you can't expect to be able to use the same file, just as you can't listen to a vinyl on a CD player. If I spent $10 on an ebook and could only read it once then I'd resort to hacking / pirating. If I'd spent a dollar then whatever, I'll download it again. I read way too fast to be spending $10 a book.

You're point about 'most people' could be correct - I have no way of knowing. I know my friends and family re-read books apart from my mum. She read thrillers and gives them away once read once.

[dugbug]

Originally Posted by fugsly

You're point about 'most people' could be correct - I have no way of knowing. I know my friends and family re-read books apart from my mum. She read thrillers and gives them away once read once.

Its not just most people, its the vast majority... it takes a lot more time and energy to produce say, "Davinci Code", over a single mp3. and it has little "replay" value, whereas music thrives solely on replay. You hear it for free on the radio yet you still buy it. You pay even more to hear it performed live.

So book publishers are a little squeamish about them. Its more than likely that Amazon is having to protect their fledgling experiment as well as codify the industry.

oh, btw, both sony and kindle support sharing ebooks if their units are on the same account (ie: you have two kindles on the same amazon account, both kindles get the book with one purchase). So at least your family could distribute books to eachother.


-d

[fugsly]

Originally Posted by dugbug

oh, btw, both sony and kindle support sharing ebooks if their units are on the same account (ie: you have two kindles on the same amazon account, both kindles get the book with one purchase). So at least your family could distribute books to eachother.


-d

That's a really good feature, can imagine that coming in very handy.

I'm still not sure where you're getting your information from in regards to rereading books.... My previous point was that I wouldn't like to pay $10 for the one off priviledge of reading a book that I may or may not like. I wouldn't pay that at a library and have the option to keep it for 6 months either. When I buy an ebook I want to be able to keep it until the technology no longer works. I don't think that all ebooks should be $1 - that's just what I would pay for a one off / time restriced ebook.

It may have come off wrong but my last sentence (that you quoted) was meant to read that HarryT could well be spot on in his predictions - i was just saying what I and most of my friends / family do and not trying to prove him wrong.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by fugsly

My previous point was that I wouldn't like to pay $10 for the one off priviledge of reading a book that I may or may not like.

Plenty of people do routinely do that kind of thing. Is it really any different to paying $10 to go and see a movie that you may or may not enjoy, or going to a restaurant for a meal that you may or may not like?

$10 is, in this country, less than half the cost of a cheap take-away pizza. I get far more enjoyment from an eBook than a do from a pizza, but I regard both forms of entertainment as equally "ephemeral".

[yvanleterrible]

I share thoughts with Harry on this that a book unless it is poetry should be read once. Since I've reached fifty recently, I tend to see things more by my ending relatively to what interesting material there is left that I could read. However, I still would like my children to enjoy what I have and I do wish that the content I have would last a little more than what is promised.

[Liviu_5]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Plenty of people do routinely do that kind of thing. Is it really any different to paying $10 to go and see a movie that you may or may not enjoy, or going to a restaurant for a meal that you may or may not like?

$10 is, in this country, less than half the cost of a cheap take-away pizza. I get far more enjoyment from an eBook than a do from a pizza, but I regard both forms of entertainment as equally "ephemeral".

There are some people that like to reread books, or just buy them read a little now, a little later and so on. I easily have 100 print leisure (fiction and nonfiction, but non-professional) books that I bought and never read cover to cover but that I want to be able to read from anytime I want, and similarly I probably have another 500-1000 print books read at least once if not more that I may reread from anytime I want, and I expect the same with my ebooks.

If I want to read a book only once, I would never buy it, just get it from the library, fast read from it in a store...

Many times I read a book from the library and then order it immediately just because I like it and want to reread it at my convenience. Actually it's very rare that I read a book from the library cover to cover and do not buy it, since if I do not enjoy it, I do not waste my time. Almost weekly I visit the library and pick up a stack of books put on hold, browse them, choose the ones that may interest me and return the rest

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by Liviu_5

Many times I read a book from the library and then order it immediately just because I like it and want to reread it at my convenience.

Me too! I wonder how many of us there are out there?

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by fugsly

I re-read books over and over and over and over...

Same here. I re-read books/series I like all the time. I've got hundreds of books I've read more than once, many more than two or three times. I guess that's why at this point I'm afraid to lock into any DRM scheme. I'll stick to MS Lit so I have something I can convert & read on whatever device I might have at the time. If I was going to 'trust' one DRM scheme at this point it'd probably be Mobi I think.

[astra]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Plenty of people do routinely do that kind of thing. Is it really any different to paying $10 to go and see a movie that you may or may not enjoy, or going to a restaurant for a meal that you may or may not like?

$10 is, in this country, less than half the cost of a cheap take-away pizza. I get far more enjoyment from an eBook than a do from a pizza, but I regard both forms of entertainment as equally "ephemeral".

When I go to a restaurant I have a menu which I study for 10 minutes before I order anything and usually I am not too daring in my choices

One of the reasons why I don't go to movies is precisely what you have said: go and see a movie that you may or may not enjoy. I am not prepared to throw away £6 or more nowdays? no idea for a bad movie. I do buy DVDs for £5-6 of the movies I like. And sometimes even a bit more expensive, such as LotR 3 DVDs extended edition set for £33.

If I were behaving the way you describe, my small salary would be gone way too quickly and I would never take loans. It is not my way of life. So, I have to live accordingly to standards I have set for myself. It includes buying books of good quality that I might read in 10 years time - hardback editions, or in the case of ebooks - books without DRM or with DRM that I can remove. I would definitely not spend $10 for a book that I cannot re-read in 5 years time.

I know, HarryT, you have mentioned it before that you don't see buying a book as a life time investment. I respect it. It is your way of life However, you shopuld accept that there are many people who look differently on this matter
For example: as I said somewhere else, I am visiting a couple of fantasy related forums. You would not believe how many people over there re-read the same books over and over again.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by astra_lestat

I know, HarryT, you have mentioned it before that you don't see buying a book as a life time investment. I respect it. It is your way of life However, you shopuld accept that there are many people who look differently on this matter
For example: as I said somewhere else, I am visiting a couple of fantasy related forums. You would not believe how many people over there re-read the same books over and over again.

I absolutely respect that other people feel differently, yes. I too have a small core of books that I read over and over (the great authors, like Charles Dickens, and David Eddings ). I probably want to re-read, though, something like 1 in 50 of the books that I read, something like that. The vast majority I read, and would have no interest in reading again.

[yvanleterrible]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I absolutely respect that other people feel differently, yes. I too have a small core of books that I read over and over (the great authors, like Charles Dickens, and David Eddings )

Cheap shot Harry!

[fugsly]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Plenty of people do routinely do that kind of thing. Is it really any different to paying $10 to go and see a movie that you may or may not enjoy, or going to a restaurant for a meal that you may or may not like?

$10 is, in this country, less than half the cost of a cheap take-away pizza. I get far more enjoyment from an eBook than a do from a pizza, but I regard both forms of entertainment as equally "ephemeral".

Yes but I don't go to the cinema 2/3 times a week, I couldn't afford it. If I only read a couple of books in a month then fair enough but I don't. If you could only read them through once then I'd only ever read extremely long books!

(I also don't tend to go to the cinema very often for the same reason, my shoe budget won't let me)