Amazon has banned my account - my Kindle is now a (partial) brick.

[whitearrow]

I'm glad the OP has had his issue resolved, but I have to say I find this whole thing worrisome. I've had an Amazon account since 1996, and purchased literally thousands and thousands of dollars of stuff from them, including two laptops. And now I'm sitting here worried about the pair of $35 shoes I returned to Endless last year, the gift CD at Xmas that I exchanged for a gift card, and the ~$70 shipment (4 Blu-rays) that went missing a month ago. (Which was promptly replaced by Amazon, and the only time in 13 years I've had a missing shipment.)

If stuff like this could lead to my account being suspended, well, maybe I should check buy.com first and limit my non-Kindle Amazon purchases. I know that it's probably very unlikely, but I hate the uncertainty that this kind of story raises. Amazon needs clear and public guidelines and warnings before taking such drastic action.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by Sporadic

Mainly because Amazon can only replace an order once before they automatically refund you and the fact you would have had to been returning items at a crazy rate for them to have flag your account.

So the folks that have gotten multiple Kindle 2 replacements are what, lying? How 'bout the fact that folks have had their accounts yanked for as few as two returns?

[Damætas]

Ian, I am so glad to hear that you were vindicated. I was a bit surprised by those who were taking Amazon.com's side. I think it is good for everybody when scammers are caught and prevented from scamming, but Amazon.com has a troubling track record of casting their net too wide. I'm glad someone in Account Services decided to care and do right by you today.

[Good Old Neon]

Originally Posted by Damætas

Ian, I am so glad to hear that you were vindicated. I was a bit surprised by those who were taking Amazon.com's side. I think it is good for everybody when scammers are caught and prevented from scamming, but Amazon.com has a troubling track record of casting their net too wide. I'm glad someone in Account Services decided to care and do right by you today.

You’re surprised that not everyone was or is willing to believe, at face value, an anonymous poster’s one-sided story on an internet message board?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

If I was on the fence about the Kindle before (which I wasn't), I'd be off that fence like a shot now, and heading for more open devices. Why invest in a device that can be so easily bricked, depriving you of further use (or potentially, of the use of products you've already purchased) when you can get a device that reads multiple formats and is not tied so tightly to a restrictive service?

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Why invest in a device that can be so easily bricked

It's not bricked at all. Perhaps not being able to buy from Amazon makes it less useful. But there are plenty of other places to get content.

BOb

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by grooks

I would be wary of purchasing big-ticket items from Amazon in the future. If you suspect some items will not meet your specifications and would therefore need to be returned, you may find yourself in the same situation. It may only take one or two returns before they blacklist your account again.

I'd agree with that. Sounds like they left him on thin ice on that regard.

Have no idea why he was returning stuff, but if he's picky about things or just having bad luck with stuff getting damaged in shipping (maybe his mailman or UPS guy are careless) better off not buying anything major or easily damaged from them and risking getting banned again and locked out of the Kindle.

Originally Posted by pilotbob

It's not bricked at all. Perhaps not being able to buy from Amazon makes it less useful. But there are plenty of other places to get content.

BOb

True. But the Amazon store (with it's selection and often lower prices) and the whispernet are main advantages of Kindle vs. the competition. So I'd see no reason to own one if you couldn't use the store anymore with some of the other readers having better designs, supporting more formats etc. and generally being cheaper (used Kindle 1 aside which is the route I went).

That's not a bash as I love my Kindle--but I bought it over the Sony or others 100% for the Amazon store and Whispernet.

[Sporadic]

Originally Posted by zerospinboson

You're fairly quick to condemn, I see.

More like I've been on the internet long enough to know you shouldn't take a one sided story as gospel.

Looking at his story and the harsh decision Amazon took, he has more reason to lie (locked out of the Kindle store) than Amazon does. I'm not saying he did lie about what happened but he loses the benefit of the doubt.

Originally Posted by zerospinboson

You're fairly quick to condemn, I see.
May I ask what "fact" you are referring to? Are you perhaps an amazon CS rep? Someone who writes amazon "flagging policy"? I'm curious what your claim to being an authority on amazon return/refund policies is based on, seeing how this is information that is purposely not put on the internet.

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

So the folks that have gotten multiple Kindle 2 replacements are what, lying? How 'bout the fact that folks have had their accounts yanked for as few as two returns?

Personal experience. I've done a good amount of returns with Amazon, a few back-to-back returns, inadvertently did some shady stuff (forgot to mail back defective items) and have heard multiple times from Amazon CS (with Blu-Rays, I don't know if they have something different setup with Kindle since they are the producers) that "we can not replace a replacement. if you want you can return it, we'll refund you and you can replace the order"

I find it very hard to believe that people have had accounts yanked for two returns. Was it a new account? Second account? Was it their first two orders? For some reason I imagine there is more to the story then they are letting on.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

It's not bricked at all. Perhaps not being able to buy from Amazon makes it less useful. But there are plenty of other places to get content.

BOb

If you abide by Amazon's restrictions and legal restrictions, there really aren't many options. If you're willing to use certain tools, the options for content from other retailers are plentiful. Otherwise, you can only read DRM-free works and there aren't that many current titles available that way. There are a few gems like Baen's that offer such things, but most of the stuff I read isn't available anywhere legally without DRM.

Now if it had been one of us giving him the advice that his Kindle weren't bricked, that it was still quite useful, I would think nothing of it. It seems a bit disingenuous coming from Amazon since I doubt they would sanction him using the same sort of tools that prompted them to use the DMCA takedown hammer. It's technically true, yes. You can get many DRM-free books and load them on the Kindle. You just can't get much of what's been published in the last 80 or so years. Most people would like to read that stuff, too. As I've often said here, books are not fungible commodities. If books were interchangeable, I'd just have one and read it over and over.

[weatherman]

I'm deeply troubled by this whole story. I've been a long-time Amazon customer, and one of the reasons that I've been so loyal is the ease of returns. When something has been defective, I've called them and there hasn't been any hassle whatsoever. Having a good return policy is what has led me to pay slightly higher prices over other online retail that I've found, and has gotten me to become a member of Amazon Prime, led me to being a loyal customer of their MP3 store, and most recently to become a Kindle owner.

The very idea that they would be able to cut off access to the online store for a Kindle owner - the store that is the only reason that someone would buy a Kindle these days, is just ludicrous.

Even if the original problem has been solved, the examination of this problem and the other similar stories that it has exposed has undermined my confidence in their service. I won't be returning my Kindle, but I will be canceling my Prime membership today and moving my business elsewhere for everything except digital products. This is partially as a way to "boycott" Amazon for this practice, but it's also out of self-protection; I do not want to be in a position to have ordered something that needs to be returned to Amazon only to find that it was the thing that puts me on their banned list.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Alisa

If you abide by Amazon's restrictions and legal restrictions, there really aren't many options. If you're willing to use certain tools, the options for content from other retailers are plentiful.

Well, if Amazon abandons me and closes my account, I'm not going to much care about any "agreement" that I have with them. Haven't they pretty much canceled it?

But, yes, as you say, convertlit et al are you friend in this circumstance.

BOb

[Daithi]

I can understand businesses (Amazon or brick and mortars) banning people that return a lot of items -- even if they are legitimate returns but where return rates fall outside the norms. It would be pretty hard for Amazon to determine who is scamming and who just had a run of bad luck.

With that said, I'd be a little leary about now purchasing big ticket items from Amazon. If I have to return a couple big ticket items I'd be afraid that it could cost me the ability to buy ebooks, so I'll play it safe and go elsewhere.

[sfernald]

Originally Posted by KarlB

You either haven't been reading this thread, or (more likely) you are a troll.

No, I've read the entire thread and I still stand by my statement. Me not agreeing with you does not make me a troll. Anyway, it's resolved. Somehow, I doubt the OP will find much use for his Amazon account now that he has to watch the returns though.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Gideon

That's a different issue for me. To me that's the argument against DRM. I lost books to Amazon years ago when they quit supporting Adobe DRM. But to me the issue is "banned or not" and I can imagine that banned is site-wide with all the repercussions that come with that.

You get to be angry if you lose your access to DRM books, and sure fight against it, but if you're doing it - you're doing it and knowing the possible ramifications is part of being a diligent consumer. If you get banned and you get to feel that - well, that's just part of being banned.

If someone had it coming, all the more that it was their own fault.

So there is a DRM issue here and a 'banning issue' here. Banning touches on the DRM issue, but the DRM issue transcends just being banned from one particular place.

What Amazon should have done is to send a letter out saying that the customer was coming close to having the account closed and being banned for whatever the reason is. Then if the person still does whatever it was that Amazon did not like and the account goes away, so be it. At least that would be the fair and ethical thing to do. If someone doesn't know that s/he is doing wrong, then h/she won't stop.

[DixieGal]

It's a shame we don't have a friend at Amazon who would speak on the company's behalf about this and their badly thought out KindlePID notice. MR has become influential enough to deserve better respect from them. But it would be nice to have a conversation with someone from their side of the discussion for once.

Amazon is breaking my heart with the way they are treating their customers lately.