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Old 07-20-2010, 02:22 PM   #31
Hellmark
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If you go to amazon looking to buy an ebook, you should expect it to be just for the Kindle platform. I'd say more than not, if it is available via Amazon, it is also available from another ebook store. Try using inkmesh.com or something like that to find where has the book, and for how much.

And if it is legal in your area, DRM removal is possible.
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Old 07-20-2010, 08:26 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Hellmark View Post
If you go to amazon looking to buy an ebook, you should expect it to be just for the Kindle platform. I'd say more than not, if it is available via Amazon, it is also available from another ebook store. Try using inkmesh.com or something like that to find where has the book, and for how much.

And if it is legal in your area, DRM removal is possible.
Not always. I went looking for Mech by MR member BVLarson. Kindle only. I did however find a funny zombie book (The Changed by B.J. Burrow, non-DRM) that I did buy from another site. And that book is in Kindle, PDF, ePub, etc.

Larsons problem is that even if he makes it available in non-DRM format later, I will not remember to keep looking for it. Sale lost.


Again, why should I have to make their product work on my reader? Imagine a tire dealer saying that you can ONLY use his tires if you modify YOUR car. I'll just go elsewhere.
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Old 07-21-2010, 01:13 AM   #33
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I'm sorry but you are completely mistaken as to what unlimited simultaneous usage means. It has nothing to do with DRM or formats... It means that if you have multiple users on your account (I have 9 personally, 2 K1's, 3 kindle for pc, 3 K2i, and an iPad) they can all read the book AT THE SAME TIME.
Well, as the person who originally told the OP that DRM-free was what "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited" in the Product Details meant, I'd hate to have been spreading incorrect info.

Since I may have perhaps been mistaken about what Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited actually meant, I decided to test things by setting up a new user on my computer and registering a separate install of Kindle for Mac under a new Amazon account.

I "purchased" the top 3 $0.00 versions of Alice in Wonderland which said SDU:U in the product details, downloaded, and then switched over to my regular login account and tried them in my original K4Mac registration.

Worked perfectly well, and Calibre was happy to accept and convert them to ePubs, and the other zero-cost PD titles which claimed unlimited device usage I'd picked up earlier could also transfer back and forth between separate accounts/reader apps.

Now, I did notice that a lot of them seemed to list "Public Domain Books" as the publisher, so it's possible that this is simply because any public domain books may be automatically DRM-free, or it's just a single-publisher quirk.

But I don't think that's the case, as there's a version of Alice in Wonderland by "Bunny Books" which costs $2.80 and completely omits any SDU info, whereas this "Raleigh St. Clair" version with active table of contents at $3.00 does say SDU:U.

Similarly, all the books noted by the authors responding in this thread as being DRM-free also have SDU:U on their product pages, whereas the publisher promo freebies I picked up yesterday again omit the info entirely and very definitely can't be transferred between K4Mac installs and still be readable.

So it seems that Amazon is using the Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited tag for distinguishing *something* in an ebook, and I don't think it's solely a self-pub versus non-self-pub issue, since this guy who's very definitely self-pubbed has no such SDU info on his book here.

He laments in two posts on the Amazon Discussion boards that he wished he hadn't chosen the default DRM option for his book because he was sure it was turning people off and there seems to be no way of turning it off in turn.

Conversely, a random spot check of the Kindle titles listed under the "drmfree" tag on Amazon, again shows that the Product Details have "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited" showing, at least on the part of the obvious indie author offerings and the O'Reilly computer books.

Probably the fastest way to find out what Amazon really means by putting this note in the Product Details of some books but omitting it from the vast majority of others is to email them and ask.

But thus far, the ones I did try were completely DRM-free and I certainly hope this holds true for anyone else who possibly went and got stuff on the strength of it.

Maybe some people who've gotten non-PD Kindle books with that particular distinction can confirm/deny if it holds true for their copies.

Last edited by ATDrake; 07-21-2010 at 01:21 AM. Reason: Fix typos.
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Old 07-21-2010, 08:39 AM   #34
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Since I don't know how to do all that, I will direct you to a free one that has SD listed:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Malacca-Co...715843&sr=1-74
Simultaneous Device Usage: Up to 5 simultaneous devices, per publisher limits
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Old 07-21-2010, 09:33 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by SameOldStory View Post
As Worldwalker says a large number of us bought an ereader to read books whenever and wherever we want. I like to read during lunch break. Should I have to bring a laptop in to the restaurant with me?

As I looked through the ebooks offered I see some that are Kindle DRM only. That limits the number of people that will buy it for their reader.

So let me put my spirit, as succinctly as possible, into words. - It seems stupid, to me, to restrict the number of people who will buy your book.

JK Rowling's rejection of ebooks has not stopped her books from getting on the internet. That's her choice. There are many writers that feel the same way as she.

I just bought a DRMed book that I probably could have downloaded illegally (I had to hold my nose to do it, but I really did want it). Had the book ONLY been on Amazon as a DRM file I might have gone to the dark side.

Boomerang (a very good book, that is being sold at a great bargain I might add) is on Amazon and is listed as - "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited". I buy more books on Smashwords because I don't have to worry about it. I wish Amazon would let us search for non-DRM books. I might buy more from them then.

I'm not going to buy a Kindle just to read some books on Amazon. I'm not going to carry a laptop around just to read Kindle books. The same holds true for B&N.

If authors want to restrict the sale of their ebooks, go ahead. There are a lot of other good books to read.

Just for the record, I upload all my books to Amazon and select NO DRM. I also sell my books at Smashwords in multiple formats for various readers. When the book is uploaded to Sony, B&N, Kobobooks and Apple, I do not have an option where DRM is concerned.

But my books are available in multiple formats so conversion shouldn't even be necessary. What's more, buying from Smashwords avails you off ALL the formats--not just one.

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Old 07-21-2010, 09:39 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATDrake View Post
Well, as the person who originally told the OP that DRM-free was what "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited" in the Product Details meant, I'd hate to have been spreading incorrect info.

Now, I did notice that a lot of them seemed to list "Public Domain Books" as the publisher, so it's possible that this is simply because any public domain books may be automatically DRM-free, or it's just a single-publisher quirk.

Similarly, all the books noted by the authors responding in this thread as being DRM-free also have SDU:U on their product pages, whereas the publisher promo freebies I picked up yesterday again omit the info entirely and very definitely can't be transferred between K4Mac installs and still be readable.

So it seems that Amazon is using the Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited tag for distinguishing *something* in an ebook, and I don't think it's solely a self-pub versus non-self-pub issue, since this guy who's very definitely self-pubbed has no such SDU info on his book here.

Conversely, a random spot check of the Kindle titles listed under the "drmfree" tag on Amazon, again shows that the Product Details have "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited" showing, at least on the part of the obvious indie author offerings and the O'Reilly computer books.

Probably the fastest way to find out what Amazon really means by putting this note in the Product Details of some books but omitting it from the vast majority of others is to email them and ask.

But thus far, the ones I did try were completely DRM-free and I certainly hope this holds true for anyone else who possibly went and got stuff on the strength of it.

Maybe some people who've gotten non-PD Kindle books with that particular distinction can confirm/deny if it holds true for their copies.
It's my understanding the SDU does mean DRM free as well. There is a check box for authors uploading -- choose DRM or not-- and it is a ONE TIME choice. Once applied, we can't go "republish" and have it taken off. It says so right next to the option.

You can't tell whether an author is self-published or a backlist author or in some cases a small publisher uploading books. Amazon has different platforms for loading books. It's my understanding that they do some of the actual uploading for the large publishers and/or have special platforms for them.

Authors under contract with large publishers don't have much say in DRM or no--except possibly those with enough selling power to make a stink. Possibly worse, many authors don't know what DRM is, nor do they care. They're writing to a contract and trying to get a book out.

If the self-published are ones you want to avoid, you'll have to do more sleuthing to find out whether they are backlist authors (many of whom are uploading the out-of-print books or having it done for them) or self-published or small published, etc.

Me, I'm a sample person. I don't care who wrote it, when or where, I'll just give it a few pages and go from there.

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Old 07-21-2010, 10:45 AM   #37
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Ok, rather than arguing with you all, I CALLED Amazon Kindle support, and they said that it means it can be used on X number of KINDLE devices at one time. If it says unlimited, then any number of Kindle devices on your account can use it at the same time, if it says 5, then only 5 Kindle devices can use it at the same time.

the DRM thing is completely seperate, you can chose to have DRM or not as an author, but that has nothing to do with simultaneous device usage which is set by the publisher. Amazon is your publisher if you use their system to publish your books.
-----

edit to add:
Amazon Kindle phone support:
Amazon Kindle customer service: 1-866-321-8851

Last edited by B.Tackitt; 07-21-2010 at 10:54 AM. Reason: Adding Amazon Kindle CS #
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:25 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B.Tackitt View Post
Ok, rather than arguing with you all, I CALLED Amazon Kindle support, and they said that it means it can be used on X number of KINDLE devices at one time. If it says unlimited, then any number of Kindle devices on your account can use it at the same time, if it says 5, then only 5 Kindle devices can use it at the same time.

the DRM thing is completely seperate, you can chose to have DRM or not as an author, but that has nothing to do with simultaneous device usage which is set by the publisher. Amazon is your publisher if you use their system to publish your books.
-----

edit to add:
Amazon Kindle phone support:
Amazon Kindle customer service: 1-866-321-8851

It was my impression that if they use DRM an author/publisher has to specify an actual number for the device usage category and if they don't use DRM it's set to unlimited since they can't choose a number. Therefore making unlimited usage a viable indicator to a titles DRM status.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:28 AM   #39
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Of course Amazon would try to obfuscate the issue. You have to take into account though that with all of the people here buying, AND selling books, via Amazon this is what we've found through our own actions. If Amazon came straight out and said that unlimited means no DRM, it could potentially upset some of the publishers. One of the reasons for this, is it would be an easy way for the customers to tell who has DRM and who doesn't, and avoid those who do. Amazon is in a bit of a catch 22, where if they DRM everything, it would upset people who want DRM free things, including publishers who aren't DRM crazy. If they do not disclose how many devices a book is restricted to, people will start running into problems with that, and want refunds (which ToS does allow for).
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:32 AM   #40
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It was my impression .
call them
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:36 AM   #41
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Of course Amazon would try to obfuscate the issue.
How are they trying to obfuscate the issue? The words say Simultaneous Device Usage... Simultaneous means at the same time...it does not say anything at all about DRM. It does not say anything about other than Kindle/Kindle apps.
Call them.
Amazon Kindle customer service: 1-866-321-8851

Hellmark, do you have a Kindle? or Kindle app?
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:37 AM   #42
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call them
Amazon Kindle customer service: 1-866-321-8851
I've talked to them plenty and you get different answers depending on who you talk to.
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Old 07-21-2010, 12:43 PM   #43
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Since I don't know how to do all that, I will direct you to a free one that has SD listed:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Malacca-Co...715843&sr=1-74
Simultaneous Device Usage: Up to 5 simultaneous devices, per publisher limits
Yes, that was one of the non-PD publisher promo freebies I picked up, and it definitely can't be transferred between accounts/devices (I have 1 Kindle and 1 K4Mac capable computer, and DRMed AZW files even from the same account can't be transferred between both without redownloading a fresh copy for the appropriate device), or used in Calibre/converted without DRM-stripping.

I think there may perhaps have been some confusion on the CS rep's part on what the term "Simultaneous Device Usage" means on its own, versus what it might possibly distinguish when "Unlimited" is appended to it on a product description, instead of a set numerical limit or no such details at all, in much the way that a lack of file size in kb and only a Print Length listing in pages on a Kindle book seems to consistently mean that it comes in the dreaded Topaz format.

In any case, it doesn't really matter to me, since due to the extra $2 Whispernet surcharge on non-freebies for non-US Kindlers, I prefer to get books via other stores if I can, and have yet to actually pay for any ebooks from Amazon itself, though I expect that will change eventually if there's something I truly want that I can't get elsewhere.

And I'd be a filthy DRM-stripper anyway (still legal to "break digital locks" in Canada, despite the best efforts of our useless sellout Heritage Minister), so it's a moot point.

Last edited by ATDrake; 07-21-2010 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 07-21-2010, 05:11 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B.Tackitt View Post
Ok, rather than arguing with you all, I CALLED Amazon Kindle support, and they said that it means it can be used on X number of KINDLE devices at one time. If it says unlimited, then any number of Kindle devices on your account can use it at the same time, if it says 5, then only 5 Kindle devices can use it at the same time.

the DRM thing is completely seperate, you can chose to have DRM or not as an author, but that has nothing to do with simultaneous device usage which is set by the publisher. Amazon is your publisher if you use their system to publish your books.
-----

edit to add:
Amazon Kindle phone support:
Amazon Kindle customer service: 1-866-321-8851
I am aware of their stance on it--and they will NOT tell you if a book has DRM or not if you ask. BUT that said, it can be an indicator. Amazon doesn't actively promote a list or way to tell if a book has DRM. There is really nothing in it for them and they aren't trying to make it public knowledge. So the Unlimited thing does mean multiple things, but I believe it also means no DRM.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:41 PM   #45
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Not always. I went looking for Mech by MR member BVLarson. Kindle only. I did however find a funny zombie book (The Changed by B.J. Burrow, non-DRM) that I did buy from another site. And that book is in Kindle, PDF, ePub, etc.

Larsons problem is that even if he makes it available in non-DRM format later, I will not remember to keep looking for it. Sale lost.

Again, why should I have to make their product work on my reader? Imagine a tire dealer saying that you can ONLY use his tires if you modify YOUR car. I'll just go elsewhere.
Yeah, I know it isnt always the case, but it is for most books (hence the first part of the sentence you highlighted).

Quote:
Originally Posted by B.Tackitt View Post
How are they trying to obfuscate the issue? The words say Simultaneous Device Usage... Simultaneous means at the same time...it does not say anything at all about DRM. It does not say anything about other than Kindle/Kindle apps.
Call them.
Amazon Kindle customer service: 1-866-321-8851

Hellmark, do you have a Kindle? or Kindle app?
I don't have a Kindle, but I do use the kindle app for PC as well as the Android app.

And I was referring to them stating how it is a separate matter. If it was the case, and the two were nonexclusive, then how come there has not been found a single book with unlimited usage but still has DRM? I've not heard of one, nor has anyone else here

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Where to buy ebooks in the UK? TimNeo Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) 22 03-28-2010 08:03 AM


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