Reflowable PDFs

[Little.Egret]

Is there a cheap utility or website that can generate reflowable PDFs ?

Or indeed can anyone point out an example I can use for testing ?


I having never seen a PDF document where reflow was actually available (not greyed out on the menu).

Quote
http://www.adobe.com/uk/epaper/tips/acr5reflow/
To accommodate readers with limited desktop space, you can provide them with Adobe PDF documents that can be reflowed into any sized Adobe® Acrobat® window. In a reflowed document, text remains at its original size even when the window size changes, so that it's easier to view.
==

The context is a SF novel that uses three fonts, Caledonia, Linotype Trajanus and EF Schneidler as printed and the author's wish to reprint as an ebook.

PDF has no problems with three fonts but does with variable screen size.

ePub can of course reflow for different screen sizes, but providing three distinct fonts on every reading device seems to require embedding with horrendous complications.

http://epubzone.org/news/epub-3-font...-and-licensing

As many will have already guessed, the novel is _The Interior Life_ by "Katherine Blake" (Dorothy J Heydt).

[willus]

I think you're still better off with epub than PDF. Re-flowable PDF seems largely hit and miss. Should this be in the epub forum?

[markom]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

[B]...

PDF has no problems with three fonts but does with variable screen size.

ePub can of course reflow for different screen sizes, but providing three distinct fonts on every reading device seems to require embedding with horrendous complications.

http://epubzone.org/news/epub-3-font...-and-licensing

As many will have already guessed, the novel is _The Interior Life_ by "Katherine Blake" (Dorothy J Heydt).

Was not able to find the actual sample page but there on Amazon it says:

Product Dimensions: 6.7 x 3.9 x 0.9 inches

So instead of reflowing, it should also be readable on every 6" reader in portraite with or without its margins cropped, or on the smaller screens in landscape mode.

If our ereader lacks good pdf zooming options or is slow at it, a great tool that can easily crop the pdf and adjust for landscape or portraite screen size (and much more) is written by certain user here called Willus

http://www.willus.com/k2pdfopt/

[willus]

Originally Posted by markom

Was not able to find the actual pdf sample page but there on Amazon it says:

Product Dimensions: 6.7 x 3.9 x 0.9 inches

So instead of reflowing, it should also be readable on every 6" reader in portraite with or without its margins cropped, or on the smaller screens in landscape mode.

If our ereader lacks good pdf zooming options or is slow at it, a great tool that can easily crop the pdf and adjust for landscape or portraite screen size (and much more) is written by certain user here called Willus

http://www.willus.com/k2pdfopt/

Thank you, Markom. I think the author has the original source for the book, though, so the question is how to generate the e-book in an optimum format. Despite the issue with the fonts, I would think that would be epub (or mobi), not PDF. I do think you'd get some good advice in the epub forum from expert users like Hitch, eschwarz, etc., if you haven't already tried, though I know that MR rules prohibit posting the same question in two forums.

[markom]

Originally Posted by willus

Thank you, Markom. I think the author has the original source for the book, though, so the question is how to generate the e-book in an optimum format. Despite the issue with the fonts, I would think that would be epub (or mobi), not PDF. I do think you'd get some good advice in the epub forum from expert users like Hitch, eschwarz, etc., if you haven't already tried, though I know that MR rules prohibit posting the same question in two forums.

There can be two original pdf formats then, one for smaller 5-6" screens and another for 9-10" screens, if pdf has been chosen over epub or together with epub.

But it is probably not a great idea because of additional expenses, so I'd go with 6"-reader pdf version that should also be easily readable on the smaller smartphones(landscape) and tablets.

[DaleDe]

Reflowable PDF is almost a thing of the past these days. I can remember when PDF files were converted to reflow (a fairly dumb one) simply by send them to a pocketpc and many word processors (I used Framemaker) could generate really nice intelligent reflowable documents. Unfortunately this seems to have fallen out of favor with the advent of ePub and other eBook formats. Adobe PDF can certainly make a reflowable document these days but most people use simple (dumb) conversion techniques.

You might try a program called 7-PDF Maker. It has a free version and does have a checkmark box to build tagged PDF. It is the tagging that allows a PDF to reflow.

Dale

[willus]

Originally Posted by markom

There can be two original pdf formats then, one for smaller 5-6" screens and another for 9-10" screens, if pdf has been chosen over epub or together with epub.

But it is probably not a great idea because of additional expenses, so I'd go with 6"-reader pdf version that should also be easily readable on the smaller smartphones(landscape) and tablets.

The problem with one 6-inch layout is that one doesn't always know what is easily readable in advance since that varies by user, which is a key advantage for epub (and mobi), in my opinion, since the font size can be adjusted by the user in real time. The issue for tagged PDF is how well supported it is across devices, which I gather is the point of this thread--to make a tagged PDF and find out.

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Reflowable PDF is almost a thing of the past these days. {...}
You might try a program called 7-PDF Maker. It has a free version and does have a checkmark box to build tagged PDF. It is the tagging that allows a PDF to reflow.

Thanks.

Given that clue I find that LibreOffice writer has that or similar code..

File/ Export as PDF (I missed it since I was looking at File/ Save As).

I also checked the Android App - Adobe Acrobat DC - PDF Reader (Adobe Systems) and found it could do reflow if asked (view menu) even on a random PDF

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adobe-Acroba...dp/B004SD5GZ4/

So can the desktop version, even for an untagged document.

View/ Zoom/ Reflow or Ctrl+4 (on/off)

https://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/usin...-features.html

So you can zoom to 400% then reflow. The text size will not change.

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by markom

Was not able to find the actual sample page but there on Amazon it says:

Product Dimensions: 6.7 x 3.9 x 0.9 inches

So instead of reflowing, it should also be readable on every 6" reader in portraite with or without its margins cropped, or on the smaller screens in landscape mode.

If our ereader lacks good pdf zooming options or is slow at it, a great tool that can easily crop the pdf and adjust for landscape or portraite screen size (and much more) is written by certain user here called Willus

http://www.willus.com/k2pdfopt/

Thanks but I want something "that just works" - a PDF with text potentially can adapt to different screen size and one with page images mostly can't.

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by willus

I think you're still better off with epub than PDF. Re-flowable PDF seems largely hit and miss. Should this be in the epub forum?

Both ePub and Kindle have long threads on trying to get embedded fonts to work reliably on different Apps and devices.

I really don't want to go there until I am sure that satisfactory fonts can be achieved and the document generation is good enough for paid publication and is not a set of kludges strung together.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

Thanks.

Given that clue I find that LibreOffice writer has that or similar code..

File/ Export as PDF (I missed it since I was looking at File/ Save As).

I also checked the Android App - Adobe Acrobat DC - PDF Reader (Adobe Systems) and found it could do reflow if asked (view menu) even on a random PDF

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adobe-Acroba...dp/B004SD5GZ4/

So can the desktop version, even for an untagged document.

View/ Zoom/ Reflow or Ctrl+4 (on/off)

https://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/usin...-features.html

So you can zoom to 400% then reflow. The text size will not change.

Yes, today there are PDF display engines that tag on the fly so as to not need a tagged document, especially Adobe engines are good at this. However, my experience is that proper tagging will provide better and more consistent results. Smart tagging recognizes headers and special formatting needs based on styles in the source document to produce consistent results.

PDF reflow can even flow around images in the text although again I have seen some of these flows reduced to single letter wide that looks like vertical printing. You have no control over the looks of such documents but they can be read!

There is more on this topic in our wiki under PDF.

Dale

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

Both ePub and Kindle have long threads on trying to get embedded fonts to work reliably on different Apps and devices.

I really don't want to go there until I am sure that satisfactory fonts can be achieved and the document generation is good enough for paid publication and is not a set of kludges strung together.

For Kindle at least, the problem is basically "how to make a sane default for legacy mobi7 as viewed on the last remaining Kindle 1/2/DX/DXG". Everything else supports AZW3, on which embedded fonts work just fine.

An entirely separate issue appears to be a bug in the KDP processing, which appears to strip fonts in an erratic manner. But if you are using KDP, then you can't upload a PDF anyway.
If you are using FTP uploads through the special BPH publishing channels, you could create an AZW4 (PDF-in-a-wrapper) by uploading a PDF. But you wouldn't have to bother since you won't need to put up with KDP stripping your fonts anyway.


Bottom line -- PDF is of absolutely no help with fonts when selling through Amazon.
If you plan on selling from your website, maybe. But only for really old devices.



Lots and lots of people happily embed fonts in their paid publications. Usually because they make books professionally, therefore that's what they're being to know how to do.

[Kennth]

Would suggest to go with epub or mobi rather than PDF although adobe provides option to create flow-able document but if you want best eBook format even with possible issues with fonts better to go with epub.

[dwig]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

[B]...
PDF has no problems with three fonts but does with variable screen size.

ePub can of course reflow for different screen sizes, but providing three distinct fonts on every reading device seems to require embedding with horrendous complications.
...

A PDF would would also have to have the 3 fonts embedded and thus encounter the same "bulk" file size issues and licensing issues.

[WillAdams]

Usually font licenses allow for (at least subset) embedding in a .pdf --- .epub requires an especial provision.