I found a lost kindle 2 should I keep it or return it?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

it's called due diligence. the airport and amazon are sufficient. the local police would have absolutely zero interest in receiving it.

That's interesting. In the UK, the local police station is exactly where you hand in lost property. If nobody's claimed it within a certain time (I think it's 6 months), you get to keep it.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's interesting. In the UK, the local police station is exactly where you hand in lost property. If nobody's claimed it within a certain time (I think it's 6 months), you get to keep it.

sure, you go downtown, find a kindle on a park bench, give it to the police. but if you find a kindle (or anything) at the airport, they have their own lost and found, they are their own "port" and have their own police. technically the "found" item should never have left the facility

[tkingny]

I just left my Kindle on the bus after owning it for less than a month, and can share a few things on this subject.

- The owner will be thrilled to have it back and will probably offer you a reward for its return.

- The owner has probably already contacted Amazon to report it as lost / stolen, in which case, it is now 'blacklisted' and will not be of much use to you. I did this within an hour my losing mine.

- Amazon Customer Service told me that they would ship a postage paid envelope to anyone who contacted them with a lost Kindle and that they would then return it to its owner. Pretty amazing customer service, I must say!

I think you already know what I think you should do....

[krazy4katz]

It's great to know that Amazon will do that! Thanks for posting that information. I really, really hope you will get your kindle back.

Good luck,

k4k

[dtrainor]

The logic of quite a few of the posters here is a bit confusing to me. If you are worried about which decision will let you "sleep better", or "feel better", then why not keep the Kindle? If you return a Kindle to fulfill your own desire to do good for others, then you are every bit as selfish as the person who kept the Kindle.

The "right thing to do", if returning it can indeed be objectively considered that, needs to be done on principle; not to appease your own conscience, which is as selfish an action as keeping the Kindle you found through no fault of your own. Seeing as you didn't actually steal the Kindle, but only found it, you have several reasonable choices to decide between. The fact that you are asking at all leads me to believe that you are on the fence on this issue. It is an easy decision for other posters to make for you, from their envious position atop the peak of self-righteousness, and yet know that a majority of those claiming they would return the Kindle would very likely keep it, if not hesitate with greater delay than you yourself have provided with whatever ignoble motivations you may in fact have.


There are too many unanswered questions for posters to be chiming in about "karma" and what is necessarily right or wrong for you. Most people, when finding something, do not value it as the lost possession of another. "Finders keepers; losers weepers" goes the proverb I'm sure we are all familiar with. I've never personally found something just laying around as valuable as you yourself have, and yet I have lost enough valuable possessions to assume that karma is not the harmonic balance some would claim it to be. If karma is a balance, then what kind of karma was it to lose the Kindle to begin with? How does an action, through no fault of your own, provide the opportunity to act on good faith at your expense, or on bad faith, so too at your expense? What a cruel fate that has stumbled upon you if losing what you have only just found is the only "right" way to go about it. I wish those who found my lost possessions reasoned with the unbridled generosity of the rather mischievous lot in this thread, but alas, this system of karma does not pay out such dividends.

It is easy to imagine that you have yourself once lost something of great value: an accidental discovery for the person who stumbled upon it. I think you need to decide whether Karma has been good to you, or bad to you, and whether or not you are entitled to "give" or "receive" on this occasion. If Karma only worked in the favor of those around us, and not everybody is playing the game, then the good people will suffer at the expense of the evil; this is hardly the game these Karma advocates have been claiming to be playing all this time, is it not?

Why is it that karma never pays off? Would finding this Kindle not be a sign of good karma? How did these posters assume that this Kindle did not miraculously appear to you as a reward from the karma gods? They just as readily assume that not returning the Kindle is poor karma, so I hesitate at this double standard.

Constantly we force ourselves to appease this imaginary deity, never quite appreciating any of its rewards for ourselves. "It's karma" to return it, and yet finding it of course wasn't just a stroke of good luck for you; that would be consistent. The last time I returned a lost item to its owner, I received so little gratification for this sacrifice as to vow never to do so again. Was that also karma- my punishment for a good deed? Is it not proof that karma is inexplicable?

Everything is karma. Nothing is karma. It is pretentious and idiotic to sit and pretend we know the methodology of such things. Do with the Kindle what would make you feel most happy; there is no guarantee that Amazon does anything but keep the device for themselves, and have two owners lose out instead of one. There is also no guarantee that the owner would be appreciative, however I will guarantee that when you return it, a part of you will wish you had kept it, for fear that this karma gig is all a bunch of smoke and mirrors.

You will be enabling the owner to rely on strangers when he loses things, perhaps leading to an irresponsible lifestyle of extravagant online purchases of investments he has no motivation to protect. Why isn't it good karma to teach the owner of the lost Kindle a valuable lesson in life? Why is it only good karma to sustain his poor financial responsibilities?

All this talk of karma just gave me the biggest headache. Was that karma too? I'm done.

[kindlekitten]

I'm glad I don't have to live in your head

[dtrainor]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

I'm glad I don't have to live in your head

So you own two kindles? I'm glad I don't have to balance your checkbook.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by dtrainor

So you own two kindles? I'm glad I don't have to balance your checkbook.

not sure how that became part of the conversation, but 3 actually

[dtrainor]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

not sure how that became part of the conversation, but 3 actually

Similarly, I'm not sure what you living in my head would have to do with a conversation on ethics.

That is interesting that you have three. Would you be willing to give one to the poor loser of the Kindle in question? It would be good karma, no doubt.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by dtrainor

Similarly, I'm not sure what you living in my head would have to do with a conversation on ethics.

That is interesting that you have three. Would you be willing to give one to the poor loser of the Kindle in question? It would be good karma, no doubt.

nope.

welcome to the forums.

[Danariel]

Since there hasn't been a reply from the OP, this whole conversation is strictly academic at this point, but I'd like to share with you my own experience at the airport.

I went to Ohio on a business trip; on the return trip, we had a connecting flight through Chicago. We had just debarked, and I hadn't taken the time to put my Kindle back in my bag. I went to the bathroom, and put the Kindle on top of the toilet paper dispenser. I met with my co-workers back outside the bathroom, and we walked very fast to the gate for our connecting flight.

As we got there, I heard my name on the intercom...and I instantly knew why. I had left my Kindle in the bathroom! I practically RAN back to the gate one up from the where we had gotten off the first plane (the gate number mentioned in the intercom message, and right across from the bathroom.) I had recently updated my Kindle, so I didn't have my usual Screen Savers on it (was waiting for them to update the SS hack and the Font hack) which have my name, phone number, and Reward If Found. It was just my great luck that I had left my flight pass in the case with it.

Some kind soul found it, and took it to the nearest gate fast enough that I was still able to make my connecting flight. Had they not, I'd have been out my Kindle, and I would have waited in line to board, realized my boarding pass AND my Kindle were missing, run back to the bathroom, and upon discovering it lost I'd have had to race BACK to the connecting flight's gate and try to get another boarding pass in time to make the flight. I'd probably have missed it.

Unfortunately they didn't leave any contact info at the gate, or I'd probably have sent them a thank you card along with $50 or so as a reward for their honesty and good deed. As it was, I just thanked all the dieties I could think of for the safe return of my Kindle.

[disney_mommy]

Okay, there is a whole lot here, so I'm going to break it up and respond to one opinion at a time:

Originally Posted by dtrainor

If you are worried about which decision will let you "sleep better", or "feel better", then why not keep the Kindle? If you return a Kindle to fulfill your own desire to do good for others, then you are every bit as selfish as the person who kept the Kindle.

I may be wrong here, but I don't think the OP was thinking about sleeping or feeling better, s/he was asking what was the right thing. The right thing is to do what can be done to return the Kindle to it's owner.

Originally Posted by dtrainor

Seeing as you didn't actually steal the Kindle, but only found it, you have several reasonable choices to decide between. The fact that you are asking at all leads me to believe that you are on the fence on this issue. It is an easy decision for other posters to make for you, from their envious position atop the peak of self-righteousness, and yet know that a majority of those claiming they would return the Kindle would very likely keep it, if not hesitate with greater delay than you yourself have provided with whatever ignoble motivations you may in fact have.

I resent the fact that you're saying that I would keep it if something similar were to happen to me. I absolutely would not. If it doesn't belong to me, then I have no interest inkeeping it. Whether someone steals something or finds it, it belongs to someone else and is therefore not mine to keep. As far as I'm concerned there is only 1 option in this case, and that is to try to return it to it's owner.

Originally Posted by dtrainor

Most people, when finding something, do not value it as the lost possession of another. "Finders keepers; losers weepers" goes the proverb I'm sure we are all familiar with.

"Finders keepers, losers weepers" is something second graders say to each other when they find a crayon that another child wants or see a toy another has set down. As they grow up, they are properly taught that that is not true. It is not something that grown adults say to each other over stolen cars and lost Kindles. If that is how you and your friends value each other's posessions, I am glad I do not socialize with you.

Originally Posted by dtrainor

I've never personally found something just laying around as valuable as you yourself have, and yet I have lost enough valuable possessions to assume that karma is not the harmonic balance some would claim it to be.

Perhaps that is karma at work...

Originally Posted by dtrainor

If karma is a balance, then what kind of karma was it to lose the Kindle to begin with?

Maybe it was a chance to test the finder of the Kindle. Maybe it was a chance for the loser to meet someone in the process of reporting it. Maybe it was meant that the finder would meet someone in trying to return it. Maybe the loser wasn't meant to have it at all. Who are we to try to figure out the reasons?

Originally Posted by dtrainor

How does an action, through no fault of your own, provide the opportunity to act on good faith at your expense, or on bad faith, so too at your expense?

What expense has s/he incurred? Is making a few phone calls not worth the effort of returning something that someone is surely missing?

Originally Posted by dtrainor

What a cruel fate that has stumbled upon you if losing what you have only just found is the only "right" way to go about it.

S/he would not be "losing it." S/he would be returning it to its owner.

Originally Posted by dtrainor

I wish those who found my lost possessions reasoned with the unbridled generosity of the rather mischievous lot in this thread, but alas, this system of karma does not pay out such dividends.

That is no surprise, considering the company you keep.

Originally Posted by dtrainor

It is easy to imagine that you have yourself once lost something of great value: an accidental discovery for the person who stumbled upon it. I think you need to decide whether Karma has been good to you, or bad to you, and whether or not you are entitled to "give" or "receive" on this occasion. If Karma only worked in the favor of those around us, and not everybody is playing the game, then the good people will suffer at the expense of the evil; this is hardly the game these Karma advocates have been claiming to be playing all this time, is it not?

Let's forget for a moment about Karma, which you are obviously not a big fan of, yet spent an inordinate amount of time pontificating on, and concentrate on right and wrong. There is no entitlement or giving or receiving. It's simply the right, honest thing to do. Why does it matter whether you will be recieving a huge karmic payback sometime in the future?

Originally Posted by dtrainor

Why is it that karma never pays off? Would finding this Kindle not be a sign of good karma? How did these posters assume that this Kindle did not miraculously appear to you as a reward from the karma gods? They just as readily assume that not returning the Kindle is poor karma, so I hesitate at this double standard.

How do you know it doesn't pay off? Maybe everything in your life that's good you owe to karma. Maybe karma is a myth somebody made up that only suckers believe in. Whatever the case may be, there is right and wrong. That's the bottom line.

Originally Posted by dtrainor

Constantly we force ourselves to appease this imaginary deity, never quite appreciating any of its rewards for ourselves. "It's karma" to return it, and yet finding it of course wasn't just a stroke of good luck for you; that would be consistent. The last time I returned a lost item to its owner, I received so little gratification for this sacrifice as to vow never to do so again. Was that also karma- my punishment for a good deed? Is it not proof that karma is inexplicable?

Since when is doing the right thing something somebody has to force himself to do? Perhaps knowing they did the right thing is somebody's karma. Perhaps not getting hit by a car on the way home from work is somebody's karma. Perhaps the fact that you didn't get struck by lightening today on the golf course was karma at work. Perhaps the fact that a wife makes dinner for her husband tonight is his karma for doing the right thing today. How do we know what karma is? You seem to think it involves flashing neon lights and big payouts that leave no doubt as to their intent. Maybe that's not what it is.

I'm sorry you didn't receive a huge sum of money or a nice big kiss as reward for returning a lost item to its owner. I'm sure if the owner knew you were expecting "gratification," he would have surely done much more to thank you. And since when is not receiving gratification punishment? Sounds like you were greedily expecting something simply for doing the right thing and you were disappointed. Boo hoo. Poor you.

Originally Posted by dtrainor

Do with the Kindle what would make you feel most happy; there is no guarantee that Amazon does anything but keep the device for themselves, and have two owners lose out instead of one. There is also no guarantee that the owner would be appreciative, however I will guarantee that when you return it, a part of you will wish you had kept it, for fear that this karma gig is all a bunch of smoke and mirrors.

If the person that found the Kindle returned it to Amazon, two owners would not lose out. Only the owner of the Kindle would (and that's assuming Amazon simply chucks the Kindle in the trash). The person who returned it did not own the Kindle, so would not lose out. And I can pretty much guarantee that anyone who has ever had anything returned to them is appreciative. They might not offer you a big sum of money or a handjob as thanks, but they are thankful.

Originally Posted by dtrainor

You will be enabling the owner to rely on strangers when he loses things, perhaps leading to an irresponsible lifestyle of extravagant online purchases of investments he has no motivation to protect. Why isn't it good karma to teach the owner of the lost Kindle a valuable lesson in life? Why is it only good karma to sustain his poor financial responsibilities?

They are surely more protective and aware of what they are doing now that they have lost something, but returning it to them does not ensure that they will become complacent with their belongings. That's quite a leap to make. It is not our job to teach lessons to strangers about losing their belongings, nor is it our job to attempt to divvy up karma as we see fit.


I don't recall the last time a post has made me so up in arms, so forgive the length of this post. I'm sure the intent was to incite someone's emotions, and in that case it succeeded. To quote kindlekitten - welcome to the forums.

[disney_mommy]

Originally Posted by Danariel

Since there hasn't been a reply from the OP, this whole conversation is strictly academic at this point, but I'd like to share with you my own experience at the airport.

I went to Ohio on a business trip; on the return trip, we had a connecting flight through Chicago. We had just debarked, and I hadn't taken the time to put my Kindle back in my bag. I went to the bathroom, and put the Kindle on top of the toilet paper dispenser. I met with my co-workers back outside the bathroom, and we walked very fast to the gate for our connecting flight.

As we got there, I heard my name on the intercom...and I instantly knew why. I had left my Kindle in the bathroom! I practically RAN back to the gate one up from the where we had gotten off the first plane (the gate number mentioned in the intercom message, and right across from the bathroom.) I had recently updated my Kindle, so I didn't have my usual Screen Savers on it (was waiting for them to update the SS hack and the Font hack) which have my name, phone number, and Reward If Found. It was just my great luck that I had left my flight pass in the case with it.

Some kind soul found it, and took it to the nearest gate fast enough that I was still able to make my connecting flight. Had they not, I'd have been out my Kindle, and I would have waited in line to board, realized my boarding pass AND my Kindle were missing, run back to the bathroom, and upon discovering it lost I'd have had to race BACK to the connecting flight's gate and try to get another boarding pass in time to make the flight. I'd probably have missed it.

Unfortunately they didn't leave any contact info at the gate, or I'd probably have sent them a thank you card along with $50 or so as a reward for their honesty and good deed. As it was, I just thanked all the dieties I could think of for the safe return of my Kindle.

I hope you're thanking your lucky stars that dtrainor was not the one to find your Kindle. You would have been screwed.

[jglerner]

I just want to point out one thought it comes to me.

I can understand all philosophical discussions about the dilemma "to return or not return", "karma or not karma", ethics, education and many other argumentation.

It just happens that yesterday I had my flight JFK-SAO (home).

I travel quite a lot, often Brazil USA, back and forth, every year, several times, for several years and I can understand quite well all security involved on American airports.

It´s well known that if you spot an unattended parcel, bag or whatever object (Kindle included) you should call the Airport Security.

That´s what I should have done.

Even if it was abroad, it doesn´t matter, I can tell you, I´ve heard too much about disguised objects (weapons, mines, bombs an alike) , that´s what I would do.

I wouldn´t play chances.

[davidspitzer]

I am just a law student so this should not be construed as legal advice but this is my understanding from my studies:


A finder of property acquires no rights in mislaid property, is entitled to possession of lost property against everyone except the true owner, and is entitled to keep abandoned property

Property is generally deemed to have been lost if it is found in a place where the true owner likely did not intend to set it down, and where it is not likely to be found by the true owner

"Lost Property" is contrasted with of "misplace property"

Property is generally deemed to have been mislaid or misplaced if it is found in a place where the true owner likely did intend to set it, but then simply forgot to pick it up again. For example, a wallet found in a shop lying on a counter near a cash register will likely be deemed misplaced rather than lost. Under common law principles, the finder of a misplaced object has a duty to turn it over to the owner of the premises, on the theory that the true owner is likely to return to that location to search for his misplaced item. If the true owner does not return within a reasonable time (which varies considerably depending on the circumstances), the property becomes that of the owner of the premises

A person who finds lost property has a duty to try to determine its owner. Typical state laws require the finder to make a “reasonable effort” to locate the original owner. Additionally, the finder must take “reasonable care” of the lost property by maintaining it in adequate condition.

Laws in some states require repayment for the finder’s expenses in caring for and returning the lost property. The person who finds a lost horse, for example, feeds it for several weeks and rents a horse trailer to return it to the owner should be reimbursed for the hay and rental expenses.