High Court orders British ISPs to block "The Pirate Bay"

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

As what?

I've already posted the revelent part of the ruling, in post 183.

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Elcreative, you're confusing civil and criminal law. In civil law (copyright and patent falls under civil law), you must be served before you can be sued. Deadbeat dads (in some cases, very rich deadbeat dads) avoid child support suits by always dodging the process server. (This is US law, other countries laws vary wildly...)

Doesn't stop civil cases being tried if there are multiple defendants just because some manage to dodge the server...

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

And what would happen to a shop that was repeatedly caught selling tobacco to minors? Would they close the shop down, or would the authorities make a representative of the local chamber of commerce stand outside the shop and keep all patrons from entering?

If they could close the shop down, they would, but they can't, because it is a magical transporting shop which isn't in their jurisdiction.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

If they could close the shop down, they would, but they can't, because it is a magical transporting shop which isn't in their jurisdiction.

Exactly! Which is why authorities want magical, morphing new powers.

My question is; what is the current procedure for non-internet-based criminal enterprises who are operating outside of your jurisdiction... say mail-order prescription drugs. How would the U.S. authorities go about stopping overseas companies from mailing prescription drugs to U.S. citizens (drugs they have no legal prescription for)? Could the U.S. Post Office be forced to destroy/confiscate mail from certain overseas addresses? Does the phone-company routinely block phone-calls to overseas numbers if their business's product/catalog would be deemed illegal in the jurisdiction where the phone company operates?

If I called an overseas business and had them mail me material that was illegal for me to have in my possession... who (if anyone) would be responsible for halting me from doing that... or to intercept the contraband? Would the authorities ask the phone company and/or post office for their records to assist them in bringing me to justice? Or would they expect the phone company and/or post office to automatically thwart my illegal activity using their own resources?

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

I've already posted the revelent part of the ruling, in post 183.

"to grant or purport to grant to a third person the right to do the act complained of"

I'll ask again: how can TPB grant to a third person the right to make copies?

[ProfCrash]

I don't think it is a losing battle. I think that there are plenty of people who will pirate when it is easy to find, convienent, and does not seem shady. So a website that pops up in the first 10 web searches on Google has an air of legitimacy to it so why not use it. If those sites do not end up on the first page, I bet that the level of piracy would go down. If they are hit hard enough by law suits and the like and end up requiring registration and develop a more conspiritorial feel, there will be plenty of folks that will second guess if the site is legitimate or not.

Will it make it go completly away? No. Will it deacrease the amount of traffic? Yes. Most people want to do what is right. If it is so easy to get to those sites and download pirated material than there are plenty of folks who will think that it is legitimate, or atlesat justify it as "If it is this easy than it must be ok" and ignore that little, small voice saying "You know it is wrong." Make them jump through hoops and it becomes 1) a hassle 2) more clear that this is not legit

[Belfaborac]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

Most people want to do what is right.

That's far, far too simplistic. Sure, most people wouldn't contemplate committing murder or armed robbery, but my impression is that the vast majority of people under the age of, say, 35 do not regard piracy as wrong in anything but a highly abstracted way. Hence morality doesn't really enter into the equation in any meaningful way.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

What you are describing are links to direct downloads, not torrent sites, so not TPB.

You get all sorts. if you search for Harry Harrison ebook you get a mix of direct downloads and torrents, plus a few from PG. None of the retail ebooks even get a mention until page 3.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

I'll ask again: how can TPB grant to a third person the right to make copies?

It is right in what you quoted:
"to grant or purport to grant to a third person the right to do the act complained of"

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

If I called an overseas business and had them mail me material that was illegal for me to have in my possession... who (if anyone) would be responsible for halting me from doing that... or to intercept the contraband? Would the authorities ask the phone company and/or post office for their records to assist them in bringing me to justice? Or would they expect the phone company and/or post office to automatically thwart my illegal activity using their own resources?

If the authorities had notified the post office to hold mail to or from a particular address, then yes, they would expect them to do so. That is the analogy here.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Belfaborac

That's far, far too simplistic. Sure, most people wouldn't contemplate committing murder or armed robbery, but my impression is that the vast majority of people under the age of, say, 35 do not regard piracy as wrong in anything but a highly abstracted way. Hence morality doesn't really enter into the equation in any meaningful way.

I don't know about 35, but certainly anyone under 20 would have grown up used to everything being free on the internet. With so many legitimate companies giving away free content in return for advertising revenue or social data they can sell to marketing companies, it's no surprise they would see nothing wrong with illegitimate companies doing the same thing. All they want is the content, what happens behind the scenes they don't care about.

[ProfCrash]

If you make it harder for them to find the content then they are more likely to realize that it not right to take content for free. Right now it is insanely easy to find pirated software, movies, books, and music. Make it more of a challenge and people start to see the stigma and become more uneasy about doing it.

I am not saying that everyone is a 100 moral and ethical person, I pirated the JKR books until they were available as e-books for sale. I am saying that if you make it challenging and find ways to make it clear that this is not the right thing to do, people will respond.

1) Why work at it when it is faster and easier to pay for it
2) Why work at it when the sites you end up at are clearly making you jump through hoops to gain access so that they are not busted

Call me naive, but I do think that people want to do the right thing. How can it be wrong to download the Harry Potter novels when the first page of sites bring you to free copies to download? If it was wrong, the sites would be harder to find. Since they are easy to find, then there cannot be much wrong with doing what you are doing.

[Belfaborac]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

If you make it harder for them to find the content then they are more likely to realize that it not right to take content for free. Right now it is insanely easy to find pirated software, movies, books, and music. Make it more of a challenge and people start to see the stigma and become more uneasy about doing it.

Quite frankly I think you're entirely, entirely wrong. However, and whether you're wrong or not: to actually make torrents, direct downloads and P2P so hard to access as to constitute an actual chore would would require measures so draconian and 1984ish (new term?) that I can't see it ever happening.

With all due respect it seems to me that those who believe it's a possibility and hold out hope of it happening are people who simply don't understand how widespread digital piracy is, how easy it is to both get into it and facilitate and how incredibly hard it would be to do anything meaningful about it.

[Keroberos]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Then why did Microsoft take such drastic measures as online registration and activation for every individual copy, all but eliminating Windows and Office piracy? I travel in countries where they use plenty of pirated copies. But all old versions like Windows XP. Few dare to use the Windows 7 copies, apparently they are seriously messed up. Besides, Microsoft used their official connections in China to enforce that every computer must be shipped with an official copy of Windows (or with some other OS installed).

Most of Microsoft's efforts have been to combat counterfeiting--not piracy (stopping some casual piracy was just an added side effect). The most current methods of pirating Windows (spoofing the SLP key) are currently undetectable by Microsoft's WGA software.

[nogle]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Exactly! Which is why authorities want magical, morphing new powers.

My question is; what is the current procedure for non-internet-based criminal enterprises who are operating outside of your jurisdiction... say mail-order prescription drugs. How would the U.S. authorities go about stopping overseas companies from mailing prescription drugs to U.S. citizens (drugs they have no legal prescription for)? Could the U.S. Post Office be forced to destroy/confiscate mail from certain overseas addresses? Does the phone-company routinely block phone-calls to overseas numbers if their business's product/catalog would be deemed illegal in the jurisdiction where the phone company operates?

If I called an overseas business and had them mail me material that was illegal for me to have in my possession... who (if anyone) would be responsible for halting me from doing that... or to intercept the contraband? Would the authorities ask the phone company and/or post office for their records to assist them in bringing me to justice? Or would they expect the phone company and/or post office to automatically thwart my illegal activity using their own resources?

Well, you are allowed to order illegal products from outside the country. But, as you try to import them (through post or any other means) customs has the opportunity to inspect and find the offensive item(s).

So, to extend the metaphor, the appropriate chain of events would be:
Allow the pirate bay to be viewed,
Allow users to attempt to download torrents,
Inspect the data packets and block those that contain offending items.

The beauty of this is that you don't need to catch every offending data packet, just enough to make the item useless, which could be as few as one.