About the backlist

[mr ploppy]

For publishers to do it they would have to add on their 80% markup, so the only way you would get old books in new digital forms at an affordable price would be if the writers (or their offspring) did it themself.

[stonetools]

What LB said. As from those who "threaten" to go to darknet unless the publishers release backlist books at rock-bottom prices, do you really think the publishers give a flying f@@k about such threats? The publishers will release their back-list in ebook format only if they can cover the costs and make a profit to do it. They're not Project Gutenberg: they're doing it for money, not love.
As for going to a malware infested darknet to get a copy of their backlist book to foist on the public, well, that's .........interesting

[rogue_librarian]

Originally Posted by leebase

There has to be an incentive to earn cash commensurate for the effort and the opportunity cost (what else they could be doing to make money).

Of course, but I don't think it would take that much effort, certainly not if they still have the original files / galley proofs (which they might well have for newer books).

The notion that they can just get a darknet copy and release it is folly.

Tell that to Walter Jon Williams

Seriously, though, I don't see rights as much of an issue if they published the original book.

And that's why we don't have wholesale conversions of all the backlist into ebooks. And never will.

I wouldn't be quite that pessimistic. It's early days yet in ebookland.

[Andrew H.]

The key question is how many backlist books can they sell...many backlist titles that are out of print probably only sold a few thousand copies in the first place, so publishers may be looking at only a few hundred (or maybe a thousand) sales. I'm not sure if that's enough to make a profit or not, especially if they sold the books somewhat cheaply.

Assume a publisher asks $5 for an e-book of an out-of-print backlist book. 30% off the top goes to the retailer, and 25% of the publisher's receipts go to the author (under a common royalty system; the author may make more under others), leaving the publisher with gross revenues of $2.60 per book. So if the book sold 1,000 copies in a year, the publisher's revenue before costs would be $2,600, spread out over that year. I'm not sure what the costs of converting and making the book available for sale might be, but it seems like they might be able to make a profit on 1,000 books. But maybe not on 500 books...

[Greg Anos]

Actually, it's a matter of value. (As opposed to values.)

I will use Baen books webscriptions. I have bought various Heinleins (the lesser rated books) for 5 bucks a pop in bulk (6 for $30), Fred Pohl's lesser works for 10 for $40, and Poul Anderson's complete Poleostechnic League Future History series, in large omnibuses (19 novels and a boatload of short stories for $42 (7 @ $6 per omnibus).

All backlist, all dead authors. Somehow Baen is still making money. I have difficulty understanding your "gotta make enough money to justify selling the backlist" worldview. As smaller companies like Baen have shown, they can be successfully marketed, but at a modest price.

If the Big 6 publishers don't want to bother, why don't they sell of their backlist rights for money upfront? If they don't see any money out of them?

Or is the real reason reducing competition for the "bestsellers".

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Stonetools

As for going to a malware infested darknet to get a copy of their backlist book to foist on the public, well, that's .........interesting

Yeah, 'cause they'd be stupid enough to not check/proof/edit/scan the file before selling it to the public. And I'd be stupid enough to suggest doing that.

Besides your dogmatic beliefs, what exactly would be your concerns with a publisher downloading a digital file (that they have the digital distribution rights to), proofing it, correcting it, releasing it and making money on it?

You're saying it makes more sense (logistically and financially) for them to start from scratch?

[leebase]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

I will use Baen books webscriptions....Somehow Baen is still making money.

We just don't know that. I too LOVE the way Baen is doing business. I love the Baen Free Library. I love that they release a $6 DRM free ebook at the same time as the hard cover (or soon after).

But we simply do not have enough information to make any judgments on how good or bad a business decision this is for them. Maybe Baen uses their free books and low priced ebooks in lieu of advertising. Maybe that's not the best idea for all companies.

Lee

[ilovejedd]

Baen has obtained the rights for digital publication, though, right? I wonder if the major publishers have the rights to distribute their backlist titles digitally. That would be the biggest obstruction, I think.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by leebase

We just don't know that. I too LOVE the way Baen is doing business. I love the Baen Free Library. I love that they release a $6 DRM free ebook at the same time as the hard cover (or soon after).

But we simply do not have enough information to make any judgments on how good or bad a business decision this is for them. Maybe Baen uses their free books and low priced ebooks in lieu of advertising. Maybe that's not the best idea for all companies.

Lee

We know they have been selling e-books for 10+ years (along with P-books) and are currently still in business. Yes, they are a private company, not required to show their books to anybody but their bankers (if they have any debt), but that is no cause for implying that they aren't successful. If e-books were going to bankrupt them, they would be already be broke. However, they claim to get above 15% of they revenue from e-books.

For them, no DRM has been a major selling point to their customers. It helped them build a brand name in the e-book business...

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Yeah, 'cause they'd be stupid enough to not check/proof/edit/scan the file before selling it to the public. And I'd be stupid enough to suggest doing that.

Besides your dogmatic beliefs, what exactly would be your concerns with a publisher downloading a digital file (that they have the digital distribution rights to), proofing it, correcting it, releasing it and making money on it?

You're saying it makes more sense (logistically and financially) for them to start from scratch?

I doubt they would do anything themselves, they would just farm it out for a one-off fee. And if they used a trusted source they wouldn't need to proofread it like they would with a fan-made one. Lots of commercial ebooks have OCR errors in them, so at best they would just run it through a spellechecker. With a fan-made one they would need someone who is familiar with it to read it through to look for things like "Gandolf turned to Mr Ploppy and said Amazon is evil!!!!!!"

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Lots of commercial ebooks have OCR errors in them, so at best they would just run it through a spellechecker. With a fan-made one they would need someone who is familiar with it to read it through to look for things like "Gandolf turned to Mr Ploppy and said Amazon is evil!!!!!!"

Well there is that.

But I would expect any commercial effort to do more than simply spellcheck a digital file before release--regardless of the source. We've already seen the example of Walter Jon Williams utilizing darknet copies to salvage his own backlist in digital format... and I refuse to believe that he's the only author it could potentially work for.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Well there is that.

But I would expect any commercial effort to do more than simply spellcheck a digital file before release--regardless of the source. We've already seen the example of Walter Jon Williams utilizing darknet copies to salvage his own backlist in digital format... and I refuse to believe that he's the only author it could potentially work for.

Norman Spinrad -but he hasn't fixed up the copies...

[Ken Maltby]

Hmm... So all the backlist are books that sold only a few copies... and any new book that
a publisher puts out is destined to sell millions of copies, right? There is no risk for even
a totally unknown new book? Weren't a number of the backlisted books quite successful,
in their day? Wouldn't there be some greater interest in the backlisted earlier works of an author who had a few very successful books later in their career? In fact, might there be less risk to bring back a good selling story from the backlist than to tryout a new author?

Luck;
Ken

[crossi]

If the publishers won't republish the backlist the author would have every right to take back their rights to it and publish it themselves. They spent months of time writing those books, they were on the shelves for a few months and then pulled to make room for the next month's book. All that work and no further income for it ever. All the people moaning over the poor authors and low priced ebooks don't seem to care about all the books languishing unpublished with NO further income for the author. At least with low cost ebooks the author gets SOMETHING. And if they take back the rights and publish themselves they get a lot even with low prices.

[Ken Maltby]

Originally Posted by crossi

If the publishers won't republish the backlist the author would have every right to take back their rights to it and publish it themselves. They spent months of time writing those books, they were on the shelves for a few months and then pulled to make room for the next month's book. All that work and no further income for it ever. All the people moaning over the poor authors and low priced ebooks don't seem to care about all the books languishing unpublished with NO further income for the author. At least with low cost ebooks the author gets SOMETHING. And if they take back the rights and publish themselves they get a lot even with low prices.

Great, if they can do it, but if their contracts allowed for that, you would
think it would be happening already. I certainly agree that if the guys they
sold the right to publish their books, stopped doing so then they should be
able to reacquire the right to do so themselves. I just don't think most
contracts would allow for that, certainly not for the early works of an author.
Once they become a name, develop a following, they might be able to set
such terms. Until then, the guy handing out the money usually gets to make
most of the conditions for the sale. And for those who are no longer here, to
try and renegotiate, ....

Luck;
Ken