Any one else with Chinese E-Ink Ebook readers ?

[donoharm]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

No device can spy on you if the WiFi is turned off.

To be extra sure, you can put it in a Faraday cage.

True, and I get that you're joking, but in all seriousness what if I want to shop for books online using my ereader? If I buy an "open" ereader, I have all the convenience without any of the BS. Did you know you don't actually own the books on a Kindle? That's just silly.

http://www.technologyguide.com/featu...kindle-ebooks/

And they take a huge cut out of the purchase price of the book for what - hosting a .mobi file? It would be way better if authors/publishers could just host/sell their own books through search engines like Calibre or whatnot and keep prices lower.

I hope to get my "Chinese" e-reader (where do people think kindles are made?) and really hope that it's as good as it looks on paper. I will write a review after using it for a while.

[eschwartz]

In all seriousness :

Hmm, I own all my Amazon-purchased ebooks... practically speaking. They are on multiple backups on my hard drive, flashdrive, Dropbox, etc. Because even if I did "own" my books, that still doesn't protect me if they go out of business. People have already gotten nailed like that from Fictionwise, BooksOnBoard, Sony, etc.

Keep in mind that you don't "own" your Nook or Kobo or iBooks or Google Play books either, and for the same reason.

And all those services take a cut for "hosting a .mobi file" -- as well as providing an aggregation service so consumers can shop at one point of sale. As well as providing -- in Amazon's case certainly -- a lot of targeted advertising. Like the "customers who bought this also bought ____".

But sure, it would be great if publishers could sell directly. (Note that they would still undoubtedly use the same licensing-not-selling.) Sadly, that is up to them, not Amazon, and most of them don't seem to really get the idea of direct selling. Baen of course notwithstanding.

How will you both:

1. Shop for book online using my ereader
2. authors/publishers could just host/sell their own books through search engines like Calibre

At the end of the day, wherever you get your ebooks from, they will know what you get and I guess that is "spying" on you. (We miss the ability to buy ebooks anonymously with cash like we could with pbooks, eh? ) Using WiFi on your ereader is not going to make a difference. So why not use the integrated store directly from the ereader?

Question:
Can you shop directly from this device? If so, which ebookstores can you access?

[donoharm]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

In all seriousness :

Hmm, I own all my Amazon-purchased ebooks... practically speaking. They are on multiple backups on my hard drive, flashdrive, Dropbox, etc. Because even if I did "own" my books, that still doesn't protect me if they go out of business. People have already gotten nailed like that from Fictionwise, BooksOnBoard, Sony, etc.

Keep in mind that you don't "own" your Nook or Kobo or iBooks or Google Play books either, and for the same reason.

And all those services take a cut for "hosting a .mobi file" -- as well as providing an aggregation service so consumers can shop at one point of sale. As well as providing -- in Amazon's case certainly -- a lot of targeted advertising. Like the "customers who bought this also bought ____".

But sure, it would be great if publishers could sell directly. (Note that they would still undoubtedly use the same licensing-not-selling.) Sadly, that is up to them, not Amazon, and most of them don't seem to really get the idea of direct selling. Baen of course notwithstanding.

How will you both:

1. Shop for book online using my ereader
2. authors/publishers could just host/sell their own books through search engines like Calibre

At the end of the day, wherever you get your ebooks from, they will know what you get and I guess that is "spying" on you. (We miss the ability to buy ebooks anonymously with cash like we could with pbooks, eh? ) Using WiFi on your ereader is not going to make a difference. So why not use the integrated store directly from the ereader?

Question:
Can you shop directly from this device? If so, which ebookstores can you access?

You make many good points. I agree that if publishers tried to sell their own books, they would probably try to use the same tactic as Amazon and "licence" the books instead selling the actual files. I remember in fact buying the publisher's digital version of my textbook back in college that I could only access through some god awful adobe lock down program that seemed designed to provide as many disincentives to using as possible...

I think there will be lots of changes in the years to come with how people use books. Acutally, even on the mobileread.com front page right now, there is this article: http://authorearnings.com/report/jul...-barnes-noble/ showing how so many authors are simply self publishing best sellers on these sites.

Regarding how I can shop directly for ebooks from this device: I don't yet have the device, so I'm not sure about the details. The Boyue T61 that is on it's way is basically a rebranded Icarus Illumina that is sold by the original manufacturer in China. Looking at online video reviews of these devices, one of them said that it's Android OS comes loaded with a project gutenberg search/download app that lets you download any hosted book. Likewise, the device will be able to run any company's android app that offers similar functionality or access any web page that allows direct downloads. Not bad for a device with the same screen as the kindle paperwhite. but only $99 shipped. At least not bad on paper, I'm eager to see what it's like in hand....

Finally, regarding spying, it's not just knowing what books you bought, it's also knowing how long you took on each page, what words you highlighted, the notes you made. And this is actually already shared with the publishers, who ostensibly use it to coach the authors into making more compelling ebooks. Many people will probably say "meh, whatever, i have nothing to hide", and that's great - I don't think spying on those people is what bothers me. In reality, most customers probably can't even understand/imagine the scope of this technology. Those who do likely won't read the fine print. They just sort of sneak it through in the terms of service and it just seems like a wrong, but technically legal, invasion of privacy.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by donoharm

Finally, regarding spying, it's not just knowing what books you bought, it's also knowing how long you took on each page, what words you highlighted, the notes you made. And this is actually already shared with the publishers, who ostensibly use it to coach the authors into making more compelling ebooks. Many people will probably say "meh, whatever, i have nothing to hide", and that's great - I don't think spying on those people is what bothers me. In reality, most customers probably can't even understand/imagine the scope of this technology. Those who do likely won't read the fine print. They just sort of sneak it through in the terms of service and it just seems like a wrong, but technically legal, invasion of privacy.

Count me among the mehsayers.

I don't really take notes, or highlight. So Amazon could definitely find out my reading speed if they cared... (I believe there is actually a privacy policy somewhere that says they *don't* sync that info, only the highlights/notes, but I'm not so sure especially considering Kindle Unlimited and how they get paid).

ToS and EULAs, how fun. I always end up remembering something I brought up here: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...29#post2884929
Interesting that it came up in a discussion of KU.

[DaleDe]

I would think they have no idea how long you spent on a page. The unit doesn't log this sort of data. You can make any notes on a piece of paper. No need to use the unit. The license idea is important for any eBook that anyone sells. Otherwise you could buy one, make a hundred copies and give them away to your friends. This is a bit tougher to do with a paper book. Of course you can still do that by breaking the law. None of this you mentioned is an invasion of privacy if you permit it. You don't have to buy any books, there are plenty of free ones. People choose to share data everyday but it is a choice you don't have to make.

Dale

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

I would think they have no idea how long you spent on a page. The unit doesn't log this sort of data.

Actually, they (Amazon Kindle, at least) kind of have to, according to the idea behind KU. They pay authors once 10% has been read. (Before this news, I would've thought the same as you.) Although the unit definitely does log the data -- that is how the Time Left To Read is calculated.

You can make any notes on a piece of paper. No need to use the unit. The license idea is important for any eBook that anyone sells. Otherwise you could buy one, make a hundred copies and give them away to your friends. This is a bit tougher to do with a paper book. Of course you can still do that by breaking the law.

Of course, even if an ebook is a purchase, it is still against the law to redistribute. License vs. purchase doesn't magically make it more illegal than it already was to take something you bought and duplicate it to then redistribute someone else's copyrighted creative work.

Same goes for photocopying and redistributing a pbook. It may be more difficult, but then again, it is also against the law.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by donoharm

Did you know you don't actually own the books on a Kindle? That's just silly.

You "own" them, or more correctly the license for them, in the same/similar way you do an eBook from any other store.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Actually, they (Amazon Kindle, at least) kind of have to, according to the idea behind KU. They pay authors once 10% has been read. (Before this news, I would've thought the same as you.) Although the unit definitely does log the data -- that is how the Time Left To Read is calculated.

Knowing how far you are is not the same as knowing how long you view a page. Of course the unit itself knows what page you are on but not how long you have been there. I can't imagine what clandestine purpose knowing how long you were on a page could be used for anyway.

Of course, even if an ebook is a purchase, it is still against the law to redistribute. License vs. purchase doesn't magically make it more illegal than it already was to take something you bought and duplicate it to then redistribute someone else's copyrighted creative work.

Same goes for photocopying and redistributing a pbook. It may be more difficult, but then again, it is also against the law.

There is no difference between "purchasing" an eBook and "licensing" an eBook. You always own the file itself but DRM might prevent you from using the file to read.

Dale

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Knowing how far you are is not the same as knowing how long you view a page. Of course the unit itself knows what page you are on but not how long you have been there. I can't imagine what clandestine purpose knowing how long you were on a page could be used for anyway.

True, how far != how long. But as I said, the unit (if we are talking about Kindles) most certainly does know how long you view each page, since that is the only way to measure Time Left To Read (a metric of how long you will view each page that is left).

And since Amazon does not, I believe, pay authors when you borrow a book through Kindle Unlimited and skip to halfway, read a few pages and give up, I have a feeling they sync that data back to their servers.

I do agree, and have long since done so, that this data cannot serve any meaningful purpose in spying on you unless someone is FAR more imaginative than I.

Originally Posted by DaleDe

There is no difference between "purchasing" an eBook and "licensing" an eBook. You always own the file itself but DRM might prevent you from using the file to read.

I am unsure why you think I need that to be explained...

[donoharm]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

And since Amazon does not, I believe, pay authors when you borrow a book and skip to halfway, read a few pages and give up, I have a feeling they sync that data back to their servers.

That's so interesting. Since the customer paid amazon to buy the license, how do they justify not paying the author?

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by donoharm

That's so interesting. Since the customer paid amazon to buy the license, how do they justify not paying the author?

I was speaking of Kindle Unlimited, which is subscription-based. Hence the "borrowing" (not buying).

[donoharm]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

You "own" them, or more correctly the license for them, in the same/similar way you do an eBook from any other store.

OK, you're right and I think part of the problem is that I'm new to ebooks and ereaders. I assumed that most other stores are not as restrictive as Amazon, but I think I'm wrong....

But, when I search for books on Calibre, I see some as having DRM, but others do not. Presumably, even though I can't go copy and re-sell those DRM free versions (just like I can't with a real book), I at the very least know that Amazon will not delete the content from my eReader or let some third party know what I've been reading. Maybe I can go and give them to someone I care about as a gift, knowing that I'm not becoming a criminal.

[eschwartz]

If you don't want people to know what you're reading, you don't need a new device. You need a new store, one that allows you to buy ebooks anonymously, with hard cash at the checkout aisle.

[donoharm]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

If you don't want people to know what you're reading, you don't need a new device. You need a new store, one that allows you to buy ebooks anonymously, with hard cash at the checkout aisle.

As you eluded to in your previous posts, the kindle does send information about the reader back to amazon, so I guess one would need both a new reader and a new store. Hopefully, ereaders like the boyue/Icarus/onyx that have an open OS like android where the user can actually control what the device does will become more common.

And as far as the stores go, I just read about new ones like Screwpulp and smashwords that sell directly for the authors. Seems like a better deal both for the consumer and the author. I suspect there will be lots of change in this industry in the years ahead....

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by donoharm

As you eluded to in your previous posts, the kindle does send information about the reader back to amazon, so I guess one would need both a new reader and a new store. Hopefully, ereaders like the boyue/Icarus/onyx that have an open OS like android where the user can actually control what the device does will become more common.

And as far as the stores go, I just read about new ones like Screwpulp and smashwords that sell directly for the authors. Seems like a better deal both for the consumer and the author. I suspect there will be lots of change in this industry in the years ahead....

Or you could sideload your books. Those don't get stats sent back to Amazon -- why would they? Unless you are afraid Amazon is doing so for clandestine purposes beyond the needs of KU. While technologically possible, I doubt it -- but then, I wouldn't worry about it regardless, so I may be dismissing the idea too readily. I certainly don't object to your worry -- although I disagree .