05-13-2008, 07:42 PM | #76 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 7,452
Karma: 7185064
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Linköpng, Sweden
Device: Kindle Voyage, Nexus 5, Kindle PW
|
Quote:
I still think that people call copyright infringement for theft either because they do not know better or because they are using dishonest rhetorical language. |
|
05-13-2008, 08:06 PM | #77 | |
Sir Penguin of Edinburgh
Posts: 12,375
Karma: 23555235
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: DC Metro area
Device: Shake a stick plus 1
|
Quote:
The problem with the term "identity theft" is that it is more metaphysical than practical. My identity cannot be stolen; I will always be me. Someone might commit fraud in claiming to be me, but since I am still me nothing has been stolen. |
|
Advert | |
|
05-13-2008, 08:26 PM | #78 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 11,470
Karma: 13095790
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Grass Valley, CA
Device: EB 1150, EZ Reader, Literati, iPad 2 & Air 2, iPhone 7
|
Quote:
It is true that you still have you identity which is why it is like the copyright case. But legally it is called identity theft. Actually they don't commit fraud by claiming to be you. They commit a hoax. They commit fraud on a bank by using your name to extract money but then they didn't commit fraud against you since they did actually commit the hoax against you personally. However, it is a life ruining experience but no fraud was committed against you personally so I guess it shouldn't be a crime (in your view) since we haven't got a good name for it. Dale |
|
05-13-2008, 08:38 PM | #79 | |
Sir Penguin of Edinburgh
Posts: 12,375
Karma: 23555235
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: DC Metro area
Device: Shake a stick plus 1
|
Quote:
Impersonating me to drain my bank account is unlikely. It is more likely that someone would commit forgery by falsifying my signature. This isn't really identity theft, even by your definition. It is possible that this is stealing, but it does not concern me. It is a matter between the bank and the forger. Since I didn't withdraw this money, I will get my money returned. |
|
05-13-2008, 08:44 PM | #80 |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 8,478
Karma: 5171130
Join Date: Jan 2006
Device: none
|
Somehow, I had a feeling this is where this thread would be going...
|
Advert | |
|
05-13-2008, 08:56 PM | #81 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 11,470
Karma: 13095790
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Grass Valley, CA
Device: EB 1150, EZ Reader, Literati, iPad 2 & Air 2, iPhone 7
|
Quote:
Dale |
|
05-13-2008, 09:30 PM | #82 | |
Sir Penguin of Edinburgh
Posts: 12,375
Karma: 23555235
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: DC Metro area
Device: Shake a stick plus 1
|
Quote:
The repercussions of an act of "identity theft" having been committed against you is not relevant to a discussion on whether "identity theft" is the correct word for the crime. |
|
05-14-2008, 10:08 AM | #83 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 11,470
Karma: 13095790
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Grass Valley, CA
Device: EB 1150, EZ Reader, Literati, iPad 2 & Air 2, iPhone 7
|
Quote:
Dale |
|
05-14-2008, 10:25 AM | #84 | ||
Groupie
Posts: 173
Karma: 3277
Join Date: Jun 2007
Device: Librie, eReader, Kobo Glo
|
Quote:
. . . And then, you came up with this: Quote:
As a matter of fact, it appears that even the forum's most in favor of "hard copyright" rules (you, HarryT and so on) have somewhat agreed to the point, since I've noticed most of you guys have stopped confusing the terms in your posts. I wonder if we shouldn't open a thread on this topic, not to discuss minute details and contradict each other, but for interested members to develop their overall views on the subject and their reasons to have them (moral, philosophical, pragmatic and so on). |
||
05-14-2008, 04:30 PM | #85 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 8,478
Karma: 5171130
Join Date: Jan 2006
Device: none
|
Quote:
However, I didn't expect to hear disagreement on the fact that we at MR have failed so far to come to an agreement on the essential nature of the e-book, and how that impacts its status as object/property, and our individual rights concerning them. (Or did I miss a memo?) The only reason no one's stated a "consensus" is because the discussions have inevitably broken down without a resolution, only to be restarted elsewhere... but the fact that we continue to discuss it indicates the fact that we have not all come to an agreement on the issue, but we still feel the need to reach for one, for the good of all concerned. That's a consensus, whether implicitly stated or not. Anyway... Feel free to discuss the subject further, that's what MR is here for. |
|
05-15-2008, 04:49 PM | #86 |
Groupie
Posts: 173
Karma: 3277
Join Date: Jun 2007
Device: Librie, eReader, Kobo Glo
|
I agree we haven' t reached a consensus on the topic - obviously.
I felt you implied our stances and feelings on the matter should be dictated by the decisions of the world at large. This is what I was disagreeing with. If I misunderstood, my apologies. |
05-15-2008, 09:59 PM | #87 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 8,478
Karma: 5171130
Join Date: Jan 2006
Device: none
|
Quote:
However, as we at MR have repeatedly failed to come up with that consensus... I have to think that if the world at large, meaning governments, industry, public, etc, manage to come up with a workable consensus before we do, and satisfy the need for a definition of e-books as product/property... maybe that's a good thing. |
|
05-16-2008, 05:36 AM | #88 |
Groupie
Posts: 173
Karma: 3277
Join Date: Jun 2007
Device: Librie, eReader, Kobo Glo
|
I am very leery of the current administrations of our various supposed democracies.
To give an an example, back here, the previous copyrights laws were passed in the 70/80's, after long debates in the Parliament that considered every party involved. Consequently, the bills were passed unanimously, when consensus was reached. That was before. The latest text has mainly been written by the Industry, rushed through with little regard for the common good, and voted by MPs of the current majority who'd been told to behave by their party. Somewhat unsurprisingly, that bill was shot down as unconstitutionnal by the relevant body. That's not stopped them from trying again, even though it's been judged as being in violation of Human Rights by the EU. Should it be surprising to see similar things in other countries, or to hear that Germany has expressed an interest in said bill? |
05-16-2008, 09:11 AM | #89 |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 8,478
Karma: 5171130
Join Date: Jan 2006
Device: none
|
I wouldn't look forward to my government's idea of "consensus," either. U.S. laws are pretty much run by industry these days, too... especially when the public has not weighed in on a subject, nor convinced its leaders that they must listen to the public over the industries.
If consensus could be reached by communities like MR, we could develop something to take to our governments and show them how it will work to everyone's advantage. That's how the public influences laws. But so far, we have proven incapable of doing that, which means that when industry is ready, it will have the laws rewritten to its advantage, and we'll be stuck with it. |
05-16-2008, 01:42 PM | #90 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 19,832
Karma: 11844413
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tampa, FL USA
Device: Kindle Touch
|
Quote:
BTW: The notices and comment time are required by the FAA's charter. It would be nice if there were similar community review of the bills that congress is considering. I wonder if people would get involved. This would gives us a truly "representative" democracy. BOb |
|
Tags |
copyright, drm, riaa, torrent, torrentspy |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Pay to preview? | WT Sharpe | General Discussions | 7 | 09-26-2010 02:21 PM |
iPad How Many Subscriptions Will You Pay For? | Sonist | Apple Devices | 26 | 04-17-2010 11:49 AM |
Sony Reader Case with Light damages PRS-505! | EricB | Sony Reader | 35 | 04-12-2009 02:52 PM |
Readius: How much would you be willing to pay? | TadW | News | 8 | 07-30-2008 06:45 AM |
Punitive Damages | Manuel47 | Lounge | 20 | 06-21-2008 08:56 AM |