MS Surface 2nd generaton

[WillysJeepMan]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

+1.
I like my Surface RT. But being able to install all my legacy stuff is an enormous advantage of Surface Pro. And if you've got a Surface Pro, there's no real argument for an additional Surface RT.
Still: Looking at the low price of Surface RT, I'm tempted to buy one in addition. No real need in addition to Surface Pro, but on the other hand it (RT) easily can compete with other tablets I might be tempted to buy...

Actually, I wouldn't recommend the RT as a tablet. As a netbook-type device, yes, but a tablet, no.

The aspect ratio (16:9 or 16:10) is weird... too narrow in portrait, too wide in landscape to use it as a tablet. The touch responsiveness and accuracy is barely acceptable. But for productivity use, it is surprisingly good.

I know that many can't see a reason for the RT, but I can't see a reason for the Pro. Honestly, 10.6" is way too small to use as a primary device. I can't think of any legacy software that would be comfortable on that sized screen. That's netbook territory. Netbooks were good in a pinch but not something to be used as a primary computing device. In my opinion anyways.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by WillysJeepMan

Actually, I wouldn't recommend the RT as a tablet. As a netbook-type device, yes, but a tablet, no.

I agree - the aspect ratio is wrong for a tablet. Too tall and thin.

I know that many can't see a reason for the RT, but I can't see a reason for the Pro. Honestly, 10.6" is way too small to use as a primary device.

Not when it's plugged into an external monitor.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by WillysJeepMan

..The aspect ratio (16:9 or 16:10) is weird... too narrow in portrait, too wide in landscape to use it as a tablet...

Interesting enough, that's one of the details I like about both Surface tablets.
In landscape, it's great for browsing some websites.
In portrait, I favor the narrowness. I loved my Sony 900 for example for the very same reason.
I'm not so much a fan of iPads almost quadratic 4:3 ratio.
But I admit: I'm not reading much on any tablets. For an entire book, Surfaces probably really would be too narrow and offer not enough information per page.
But for my Zinio or Spiegel magazines or stuff like that it's fine.

Probably, I'm a special kind of user: One hour with this unit, one hour with another one.
Right now for example I've switched from the tiny Nvidia Shield to the enormous Surface Pro. Different tasks, different tools...

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The whole point of the Pro for me is the ability to run "real" Windows software.

Yes: this would be my entire reason for a Pro. I need the Windows software.

Hitch

[pl001]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I agree - the aspect ratio is wrong for a tablet. Too tall and thin.

I've never been a fan of 16:9 for any device. But it's now on my laptop, Surface, phone, camera, TV, etc. I'm very used to it at this point. It's actually kind of nice having the same aspect ratio on everything. And I think 16:9 works nicely with the Windows 8 interface.

But that's all subjective based on what you are used to and what you use it for.

[WillysJeepMan]

Originally Posted by pl001

I've never been a fan of 16:9 for any device. But it's now on my laptop, Surface, phone, camera, TV, etc. I'm very used to it at this point. It's actually kind of nice having the same aspect ratio on everything. And I think 16:9 works nicely with the Windows 8 interface.

But that's all subjective based on what you are used to and what you use it for.

I agree that aspect ratio 16:9 is virtually everywhere, and I actually prefer it on laptops, TVs, etc. But for some reason I find it cumbersome in tablet form.

[HarryT]

4:3 is a much better fit to the aspect ratio of an A4/Letter sheet of paper than 16:9, hence a 4:3 screen has less wasted space when reading A4 PDFs. That's why my iPad remains my PDF reader of choice.

[bobcdy]

Originally Posted by WillysJeepMan

Given the incredible size of the Surface tablets it is unreasonable to expect a company to offer what you are expecting. (user replacement of battery and ss drive) What other tablet with the similar specs and dimensions offers the type of serviceability that you expect?

Perhaps those spending $1000+ for a surface pro with keyboard don't realize that the cost of battery replacement is about $470.00! or more than half the price of a new unit. Thus your tablet computer is a throwaway device. Also, once the battery is exhausted one can't boot up the tablet using the power unit: http://thingsthatmightinterestnerds....warrantycosts/

Laptop batteries can be replaced, often for $100-200, in contrast to the MS Surface Pro.

Also, as far as I can tell, the MS decision to prevent user-servicing is not required by the specs/dimensions but by a decision to use servicing as a source of dollars for MS. The major reason it can't easily be user-serviced is the abundance of glue inside it, as the following source documents:
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cra...than-a-tablet/

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by bobcdy

Perhaps those spending $1000+ for a surface pro with keyboard don't realize that the cost of battery replacement is about $470.00! or more than half the price of a new unit. Thus your tablet computer is a throwaway device. Also, once the battery is exhausted one can't boot up the tablet using the power unit: http://thingsthatmightinterestnerds....warrantycosts/

Laptop batteries can be replaced, often for $100-200, in contrast to the MS Surface Pro.

Also, as far as I can tell, the MS decision to prevent user-servicing is not required by the specs/dimensions but by a decision to use servicing as a source of dollars for MS. The major reason it can't easily be user-serviced is the abundance of glue inside it, as the following source documents:
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cra...than-a-tablet/

I've owned about 15 private laptops and dozens of tablets.
Of course, the tablets only are 3 years old or even less.
Anyway...
I never took any unit to repair.
Not a single one.
A few laptops died on me.
But only after 2, most after 3 and more years of usage.
Why would I want to repair such an old unit?
With the exception of iPads, most units drop so drastically in prices, that you can have a new unit for replacement for about the same price as you'd pay for repair of the old one.
Most users will have their tablets for about 2 years, if I look at my friends and colleagues. Vast majority of all units should make that long.
There's always the risk of your typical "Monday unit". But this normally will occur within the first weeks of usage, not after 1 or 2 years.
So, is it really such a problem, if units are hard (or even impossible) to repair?
We're a "throwaway society". This certainly is disastrous from an ecological perspective. But re. usability, durability and such?

But of course I agree: The exchangeable battery on my Dell Latitude 10 is way preferable to the none-exchangeables on Surface Pro or iPad.
But not because of repairs, only because of doubling the battery duration while on the road. I wouldn't trade this convenience though for added weight or increase in depth or something like that...

[WillysJeepMan]

This is a short video of my tweaked Surface RT (running 8.1 RTM) opening Office RT apps. In the background is a video that someone took at a Microsoft Store of the performance of the Surface 2 opening Office RT apps.

The response to the original video of Surface 2 performance was universally applauded as a giant improvement from the RT. But I noticed that it didn't appear to be any different from my RT running 8.1 RTM and having a few tweaks applied. So I ran a test and here's the video:



So all that to say, if anyone is interested in a Surface 2 but has the opportunity to buy a Surface RT at a firesale price... give some serious thought to the RT.

[RZetlin]

I don't know why the Surface RT 2 still exist. Isn't losing about 900 million dollars on the original Surface RT enough pain already?

The Windows 8 ecosystem for apps is still very underwhelming.

Microsoft has to much more to attract developers or it won't win the fight against the Android Play Store to and Apple iTunes Store.

Microsoft should dump the RT system and focus on the Pro all together.

--------------------------

I have to admit the Surface Pro 2 is very tempting.

My Android tablet is good for light stuff like checking e-mail and playing Angry Birds, but I need a tablet that can do more grunt work like running Adobe software.

I don't like the weight of the Surface Pro 2 is it at the edge of being too heavy to hold with one hand and easy to use mobile device.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

I
But of course I agree: The exchangeable battery on my Dell Latitude 10 is way preferable to the none-exchangeables on Surface Pro or iPad.
But not because of repairs, only because of doubling the battery duration while on the road. I wouldn't trade this convenience though for added weight or increase in depth or something like that...

Can't you just get an external battery? They cost $50-60 (in the US) and can charge anything that uses a USB cable. (As an example, the New Trent "PowerPak +" is $55 at Amazon, has 13,500 mAh, and has a 2.1A and 1A USB charging port. The battery itself charges by USB as well, although don't think it can charge itself.)

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

Can't you just get an external battery? They cost $50-60 (in the US) and can charge anything that uses a USB cable. (As an example, the New Trent "PowerPak +" is $55 at Amazon, has 13,500 mAh, and has a 2.1A and 1A USB charging port. The battery itself charges by USB as well, although don't think it can charge itself.)

I'm using this one: http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00D...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It's fine for charging my Nvidia Shield, iPod or iPhone and the likes.
But for tablets, I found it problematic.
For one, lots of tablets don't charge via USB but have some §&(/))=" proprietary connectors. (Let's hope, the EU attempt re. standard connectors will change this asap). And last but not least, most tablets simply consume too much power. You can charge your iPhone at least twice with such an external battery. But a tablet only can be charged by 50% or so...
If I take, let's say, my Nvidia Shield, iPhone and Surface Pro with me on a trip, a single external battery won't help much...

[pl001]

Originally Posted by RZetlin

I don't know why the Surface RT 2 still exist. Isn't losing about 900 million dollars on the original Surface RT enough pain already?

The Windows 8 ecosystem for apps is still very underwhelming.

Microsoft has to much more to attract developers or it won't win the fight against the Android Play Store to and Apple iTunes Store.

Microsoft should dump the RT system and focus on the Pro all together.

No. Modern/Metro is the future and the Windows Store apps span both the desktop and mobile worlds. In under a year there are over 100,000 apps available. The Surface RT is the best selling 10" tablet not called iPad, and the Surface 2 is almost sold out. More importantly, RT gives Microsoft an ARM device that keeps the pressure on Intel and gives them better diversity in the marketplace.

People seem to assume that since RT doesn't run x86 programs it's worthless. But the fact is most consumers don't need x86 programs. RT gives these people what they need without the additional bloat and security concerns of full Windows.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by pl001

RT gives these people what they need without the additional bloat and security concerns of full Windows.

It gives people what MICROSOFT THINKS they need, and if history is any indication of how good a job MS does compared to Apple and Android in that space, then I agree: Microsoft should dump the RT system and focus on the Pro all together.