The word liseuse being used outside of MobileRead?

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

You only make yourself look silly by attacking straw men. Nobody is saying that there are no foreign words in the English language. Nobody is saying that there should be no foreign words in the English language. All that people are saying is that this particular foreign word is a stupid one, an inferior one to what already exists, an ugly sounding one, and has a whelk's chance in a supernova of catching on.

New word usage happens organically, naturally, vitally, not by people begging, cajoling and campaigning for a word that almost nobody wants. That's the difference between coining a word and blooming it (my own neologism that won't catch on, based on past anti-ebook spammer Dan Bloom, who has, I see, moved on from trying to get newspapers and ebooks renamed to campaigning to get South Africa renamed "Mandelaland".)

well, honestly, you've given me a perfect example of the *only* point i have been trying to make, which is the inexplicably virulent reaction of the people who dislike the word.

what makes a word "stupid" ? what makes it "inferior" ? "stupid" seems to me to be so arbitrary as to be indefensible, and as for inferior, i could probably make more than one argument against that if i cared to (i don't, because that is not the point i am making, and the whole argument seems frankly sterile to me). as for "ugly sounding"... well, it is certainly your right to find any word ugly sounding (i happen to think the word "puce" is quite unpleasant in english, for instance) but how on earth is that supposed to be anything other than your personal opinion ?

as for begging and cajoling... i haven't seen any of that, however i have seen quite a lot of rather extreme bullying tactics used by people who dislike the word, trying to suppress its usage.

if you don't like it, don't use it ! it's that simple. no-one is forcing you to. so why are you so dead-set on deciding what words other people can use ?

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

It's when people are simply assuming that something is normal, while it's not an accepted behaviour/word/action/whatever, I will start to rise.

For instance, when the word gets used in a news item thread title (as was the case a few months ago). These words need to grow, not forced.

again, it seems a bit excessive to object with such animosity. after all, new words become part of commonly used language by being used.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

You only make yourself look silly by attacking straw men. Nobody is saying that there are no foreign words in the English language. Nobody is saying that there should be no foreign words in the English language. All that people are saying is that this particular foreign word is a stupid one, an inferior one to what already exists, an ugly sounding one, and has a whelk's chance in a supernova of catching on.

New word usage happens organically, naturally, virally, not by people begging, cajoling and campaigning for a word that almost nobody wants. That's the difference between coining a word and blooming it (my own neologism that won't catch on, based on past anti-ebook spammer Dan Bloom, who has, I see, moved on from trying to get newspapers and ebooks renamed to campaigning to get South Africa renamed "Mandelaland".)

And your argument boils down to you and some others not liking this word (and becoming quite angry about it also). There's no campaign from our (us Liseusers) side, no begging (who would we beg?) and definitely no cajoling (but I will kick the shit out of you if you don't accept what I say ) And whose to say where a lot of words start? Maybe some do start because enough people want to use a certain word? I grew up in a place in England that in the early 80's appropriated 1920's gangster slang in several neighbourhoods (and nowhere beyond those neighbourhoods). Someone, somewhere in one of those neighbourhoods decided that the word 'moll' from 'gangster's moll', a word that was never truly used in England to describe anything, would now become a synonym for 'girlfriend'. For at least five years that word was used and then wasn't.

Shit, come to the North of England, pretty much anywhere in Lancashire or Yorkshire and you'll see all kinds of words that aren't in common usage anywhere else, even old English words that have fallen out of common usage.

Don't like the word Liseuse, fine, just don't use it. It's not like your Liseuse will explode if you don't call it a Liseuse.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by TGS

Doesn't that rather depend on the purpose of the writing.

No, it applies to every form of written or spoken communication. You don't use the same words or arguments with a 2-year old that you use with a 10-year old or a 50-year old. You don't use the same words with a specialist in your field that you use with a layman. You don't use the same words with a fellow hobbyist that you use with someone unfamiliar with the hobby. When you are writing to or speaking to someone-- unless you are acting on pure, insane ego-- you are attempting to communicate something to that person or audience-- and thus, you need to tailor your words to be something that they can understand, or else there is no point in saying it in the first place.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

what makes a word "stupid" ? what makes it "inferior" ? "stupid" seems to me to be so arbitrary as to be indefensible, and as for inferior

Okay, I'll concede that point-- there is nothing inherent to the word that makes it stupid, inferior, and ugly. It is simply my personal opinion that the word is stupid, inferior, and ugly-- but also, I would think, the personal opinion of many others that oppose the word-- and not the simplistic straw man you use in this thread (and earlier ones on the subject) that people are xenophobes trying to keep English "pure" from foreign languages.

But my main objection isn't even the word itself-- it is the silly, futile, artificial pushing (or "blooming"-- see, I got that in again) of the word.

[TGS]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

No, it applies to every form of written or spoken communication. You don't use the same words or arguments with a 2-year old that you use with a 10-year old or a 50-year old. You don't use the same words with a specialist in your field that you use with a layman. You don't use the same words with a fellow hobbyist that you use with someone unfamiliar with the hobby. When you are writing to or speaking to someone-- unless you are acting on pure, insane ego-- you are attempting to communicate something to that person or audience-- and thus, you need to tailor your words to be something that they can understand, or else there is no point in saying it in the first place.

It's also useful to read the rest of what your "audience" has written in their previous post rather than just responding to the first line of that post. Do I take it that you don't acknowledge that some literary writing is intentionally constructed in such a way the informational content of the writing is blocked or inhibited? Is it the case that James Joyce, to stick with the same example - but there are many more, was a rubbish writer because it's not clear what's happening in his writing? If only he could have followed the strictures of Writing 101 he would have been much better? It's a bit like saying if only Picasso had done Painting 101 he presumably wouldn't have been dumb enough to paint two eyes on a woman seen in profile and he would have been a better painter for it.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

Okay, I'll concede that point-- there is nothing inherent to the word that makes it stupid, inferior, and ugly. It is simply my personal opinion that the word is stupid, inferior, and ugly-- but also, I would think, the personal opinion of many others that oppose the word-- and not the simplistic straw man you use in this thread (and earlier ones on the subject) that people are xenophobes trying to keep English "pure" from foreign languages.

But my main objection isn't even the word itself-- it is the silly, futile, artificial pushing (or "blooming"-- see, I got that in again) of the word.

do you go on such active campaigns against *all* words that you personally find unattractive ? again, the anti-liseuse people are a lot more dogmatic than the ones who like the word.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I loath this word personally. Unless you're French, I can see no conceivable reason for wanting to use it. Let's hope that it dies the death that it so richly deserves.

I agree 100%.

Google Translate translates this awful word into reading light. That being the case, it has no use meaning electronic eBook viewing device. It is rather silly to call a reader a reading light.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

But my main objection isn't even the word itself-- it is the silly, futile, artificial pushing (or "blooming"-- see, I got that in again) of the word.

Seconded...

again, it seems a bit excessive to object with such animosity. after all, new words become part of commonly used language by being used.

True, but you don't use that word exclusively until it's a common word. A good word doesn't need artificial pushing, as ardeegee so aptly put it, to become common. It will be common because it's easy to use and people understand, without too much extra information, what the word means. And lisseauuse isn't easy to use and won't say a thing to a majority of people out there.

[JSWolf]

What makes this word such a problem is that it's people trying to shoehorn a definition into a word that doesn't fit and never will fit.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I agree 100%.

Google Translate translates this awful word into reading light. That being the case, it has no use meaning electronic eBook viewing device. It is rather silly to call a reader a reading light.

good heavens, yes. the fact that a machine translation (which as we all know is infallible) gives a different translation from french is surely enough reason to reject it and to prevent anyone else from using it as well.

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

True, but you don't use that word exclusively until it's a common word. A good word doesn't need artificial pushing, as ardeegee so aptly put it, to become common. It will be common because it's easy to use and people understand, without too much extra information, what the word means. And lisseauuse isn't easy to use and won't say a thing to a majority of people out there.

this makes no sense to me. no-one is trying to force an exclusive use of the word, on the contrary, the only "forcing" going on is by the people who want to force others *not* to use it. seriously, i am *baffled* by the insistence with which people who dislike the word "liseuse" are trying to prevent others from using it. why should you even care ? just live and let live, use whatever words you like.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

What makes this word such a problem is that it's people trying to shoehorn a definition into a word that doesn't fit and never will fit.

tell that to Le Monde, to name just one...

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

What makes this word such a problem is that it's people trying to shoehorn a definition into a word that doesn't fit and never will fit.

You mean like ereader (any electronic device with a readable screen is an e reader) or book (I'm just reading the latest novel on my book....?). We like the word because it has some cultural weight, it sounds nice to us, and because actually we don't take Google as the world arbitrator on the meaning of language.

Your opinion of shoehorning is only that, an opinion, and it's not one that I and many others share.

[Krystian Galaj]

I don't know French, so this word may fit perfectly there. But in English it doesn't fit and sounds bad, at least in my opinion.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

do you go on such active campaigns against *all* words that you personally find unattractive ? again, the anti-liseuse people are a lot more dogmatic than the ones who like the word.

I don't "get on campaigns" about words at all. I'm making a conversational argument on a message board that I read regularly because I have a little time to kill and am attempting to procrastinate on doing real work. Trust me, I don't give the word as much as a single thought when it isn't being brought up here.

And it struck me the exact "mood" that rubs me the wrong way about trying to push the word-- it is like the annoying little kid that nobody likes following you around and asking to be your friend. Sure, you might become friends if it developed naturally, but consciously trying to force it simply by showing up all the time and hoping people will eventually stop ignoring you comes off as really clingy, needy, and pathetic-- and excessive exposure to "pathetic" quickly pushes one over the line from sympathy to contempt.

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Krystian Galaj

I don't know French, so this word may fit perfectly there. But in English it doesn't fit and sounds bad, at least in my opinion.

Which may be because as soon as a non-English word enters the English vocabulary it is anglicized and made to sound ugly. Perish the thought that an English speaker would deign to make an iota of effort to pronounce a French word with a vestige of a French accent.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

I don't "get on campaigns" about words at all. I'm making a conversational argument on a message board that I read regularly because I have a little time to kill and am attempting to procrastinate on doing real work. Trust me, I don't give the word as much as a single thought when it isn't being brought up here.

And it struck me the exact "mood" that rubs me the wrong way about trying to push the word-- it is like the annoying little kid that nobody likes following you around and asking to be your friend. Sure, you might become friends if it developed naturally, but consciously trying to force it simply by showing up all the time and hoping people will eventually stop ignoring you comes off as really clingy, needy, and pathetic-- and excessive exposure to "pathetic" quickly pushes one over the line from sympathy to contempt.

Chill-pill needed I think. Hot summer afternoon (at least here) and you're here throwing around words like 'pathetic'. There's no campaign, no horrible Liseuse conspiracy to come and replace all your good, upstanding words in the middle of the night. We, those who like the word Liseuse, will continue to use the word and from time to time advocate (light-heartedly) its usage in threads such as this (even write a short story or two with the word prominently displayed).

Sleep well citizen. We, the users of the 'forbidden word' will not be replacing your e-reader...ebook...ereader...book-reader...electronic-novel....whatever you're calling it, in the darkest part of the night.