Surface Pro 3

[mgmueller]

256GB i7
€ 1.549 in Germany, shipment scheduled for August 31st.
Last time they had been early, would be a nice surprise here as well.
I've spent way less in the last few months for gadgets than in the years before, simply because nothing much interesting in sight.
But I'll buy any Surface anytime...

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by jswinden

The screen is only 216 dpi, so pass. That is too low resolution for my eyes if I'm going to use it for reading PDFs and eBooks or a lot of web pages.

Would you really read PDFs or even eBooks on such an enormous screen?
I've replaced my Kindle DX by Kindle Paperwhite, simply because I found it strenuous to cover such an enormous screen. And the 12" Surface Pro 3 is even way bigger than Kindle DX.
For some PDFs I can understand it, for example with complex formulas and such.
But for eBooks?
I really love my Surface Pro 2. And I use it every single day - intensively.
But I never would use it for extended reading seasons.
How to hold it?
As a tablet in portrait format? I already found iPad 1 to 4 too heavy and bulky for that and lots of my friends felt the same.
As a notebook in landscape format on the desk? Only few people read on notebooks...

[Kumabjorn]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

256GB i7
€ 1.549 in Germany, shipment scheduled for August 31st.
Last time they had been early, would be a nice surprise here as well.
I've spent way less in the last few months for gadgets than in the years before, simply because nothing much interesting in sight.
But I'll buy any Surface anytime...

You went for the top of the line, I'd like to know more about battery life before ordering, wouldn't the i7 consume the most power? I imagine the i3 holds enough processing power for my rather simple needs, but without hands on trial I wouldn't really know. Unfortunately it only comes with 64 GB of storage and even if I can add more I still need storage that is fast enough to run applications from.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Audible and OverDrive both require programs to be downloaded to your computer. WMA is Windows Media Audio. Over 60% of the audiobooks in OverDrive are in WMA format. Even though OverDrive announced that they are dropping this format, it hasn't happened yet and they haven't released a timetable for doing so.

Okay, thanks. WMA files can be converted using Linux, but not sure if they can be played directly. I guess I've never downloaded a WMA file -- at least not since I started using Linux (6 years ago). Apparently Overdrive has now released information about using it under Wine, according to this April 30th story at GoodReader, though it doesn't support WMA files as you mentioned.

http://goodereader.com/blog/e-book-n...lable-on-linux

I didn't know there was such a thing as an Overdrive Media Console, I just used the Overdrive library (available via my library) for downloading books.

For me it's not a choice. I'm not going to use Windows or OSX, so I'll find ways around it, or do without the programs. For example, I use Calibre instead of the Sony Desktop and, as mentioned before, I use ADE under Wine. I've never used Audible. I guess a Chromebook is more limited, however (I would rather use my Linux Mint laptop anyhow).

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

You went for the top of the line, I'd like to know more about battery life before ordering, wouldn't the i7 consume the most power? I imagine the i3 holds enough processing power for my rather simple needs, but without hands on trial I wouldn't really know. Unfortunately it only comes with 64 GB of storage and even if I can add more I still need storage that is fast enough to run applications from.

I've got the 256GB i5 Surface Pro 2. It's about 15% faster than my Surface Pro 1, so I wouldn't want to go any lower. On the other hand I don't want to aim higher, I simply don't need 512GB. On my 256GB Surface Pro 2 there's still plenty room left.
I'm not worried about battery consumption. Surface Pro 2 was a huge improvement over Surface Pro 1. I can't imagine that Surface Pro 3 would be a step back. And quite frankly: I don't need battery durations as on iPad with 10+ hours. I either use it at home, on the train or in the hotel. I don't need more than 4 or 5 hours without power supply.
Re. processing power: My Dell Latitude 10 and my Dell Venue 8 Pro are surprisingly powerful, although only being equipped with Atom processors. I even once tested games over Steam and even those had been acceptable.

HarryT asked me, whether there's a valid reason to upgrade from Surface Pro 1 to Surface Pro 2. Frankly, there's none. Lots of improvements, but no quantum leap. Similar to the progression from iPad 1 to iPad 2. I expect the same here.
The different format and size will make it appear differently, but my usage pattern won't change much. So you simply might be fine with Surface Pro 2 then for a reduced price...

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Okay, thanks. WMA files can be converted using Linux, but not sure if they can be played directly.

Non-DRM'd ones maybe, but I don't think you can do anything with DRM'd WMA in Linux.

[Prestidigitweeze]

Originally Posted by jswinden

The screen is only 216 dpi, so pass.

They were discussed long before the SP3's arrival, but I've been wondering about MS's screen resolution choices since the first iteration of the SP.

Using a high-ppi IPS panel for a tablet is relatively inexpensive. Why, then, has MS chosen consistently to limit the resolution of a tablet that performs (and is packaged) like a luxury item in every other way? It's as though MS is emphasizing the business cred of the SP by focusing purely on processing power and a completist's arsenal of PC capabilities. "If you're a true power user, high-resolution screens are window dressing."

I'm as annoyed by that as I was by Apple's minimalist simplification of the mouse and elimination of internal access.

Offer the user a multiplicity of choices, not barriers in the guise of inspired design.

Still, my friend tells me he hasn't touched his desktop since buying an SP2.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

Why, then, has MS chosen consistently to limit the resolution of a tablet that performs (and is packaged) like a luxury item in every other way?

Oh, maybe because pixel count isn't the only, or even the best, measure of screen quality. (Color fidelity and purity, to mention two, come to mind.) It has value but it has its limits in describing quality, especially in the newest PenTile displays.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile...ly#Controversy

And, maybe because higher pixel counts mean the GPU needs to work harder and generate more heat, just to display the same information. (Remember the short-lived iPad3? The jump to "retina" resolution ate the added processing power, ran hotter, and required a bigger battery.)
And finally, there is the matter of the digitizer: since the Surface tablets support ink as a data type their digitizers need to be pixel-level precise. That alone justifies most of the premium.

Not all the features that define the quality of a product are readily apparent or appreciated by the mainstream market. Sometimes, the best engineering intentions result in superior quality that goes underappreciated or even ignored by most buyers.

(The much maligned Zune comes to mind: it had spectacular audio fidelity far superior to ipods. But you only noticed if you fed it high quality files and played back through a quality stereo or truly premium earbuds or headsets. Most buyers simply noted that it sounded better than the ipods but assumed it was just because it had better earbuds.)

Edit: check these displaymate reports:

http://www.displaymate.com/Tablet_ShootOut_3.htm

[frahse]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

Would you really read PDFs or even eBooks on such an enormous screen?
I've replaced my Kindle DX by Kindle Paperwhite, simply because I found it strenuous to cover such an enormous screen. And the 12" Surface Pro 3 is even way bigger than Kindle DX.
For some PDFs I can understand it, for example with complex formulas and such.
But for eBooks?
I really love my Surface Pro 2. And I use it every single day - intensively.
But I never would use it for extended reading seasons.
How to hold it?
As a tablet in portrait format? I already found iPad 1 to 4 too heavy and bulky for that and lots of my friends felt the same.
As a notebook in landscape format on the desk? Only few people read on notebooks...

I am among the few I guess. Even on a big CRT at times. That is not to say I don't read on a dozen other devices.

Originally Posted by mgmueller

Would you really read PDFs or even eBooks on such an enormous screen?.

Yes I would. I occasionally read eBooks on my desktop computer, and I frequently look at PDFs thereon as well. Why? Because it is the computer/device I'm using at the time. If I'm on my desktop computer and I'm researching information, it is much more convenient in many ways to read and quote from PDFs and eBooks on the same desktop. My device of choice for reading eBooks and PDFs is my iPad mini Retina, but sometimes it just makes better sense to use the device you are on at the time.

Also, if I have a laptop and I'm using it to control one of my cameras and review photos, then I prefer the best resolution I can afford. While 216dpi is good by yesterday's standards, it lags behind today's standards. I've gotten spoiled by the 300+dpi screens I've been using for a while now. Trust me, at 56 those extra dpi help significantly with keeping eyestrain at a minimum!

[leebase]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Nonetheless, that's (the years) pretty impressive. When you're going to spend that type of dough, knowing that something is going to last is, to me, important. It infuriates me that my $1K first-gen iPad is now basically an unsupported paperweight that can't run most of the apps I want to use, because Apple quite deliberately abandoned it.
Hitch

Ummm...oookay. You do realize that the early iterations of the PC were even worse, right? I got a good couple years out of the original iPad....but I haven't updated my home PC in many years. Wasn't true back when PC's were just new. Every iteration was far more powerful than the one before, and thus the software written for it wouldn't work well on the older models.

I haven't bought a new PC to get "more power to run the latest apps" in 10 years. I buy them now when the old ones break down in such a way that it's cheaper for new than investing more money in old computers.

Tablets are simply at a much earlier point in the maturity cycle, and the iPad one is really "version 1" of the modern tablet era

[leebase]

This takes the Mac Air from a "no brainer" to "hmmmm". If I had more use for the pen, I'd definitely want the surface. I'm not buying the "you won't need a tablet", as this thing would not replace my iPad. But could it replace my laptop? Maybe. None of the prior iterations of the Surface interested me. But I think this one should see some success (finally)

[RZetlin]

As an owner of a Surface Pro 2, I am disappointed that Microsoft went with N-Trig and not Wacom technology.

Having a larger 12" screen defeats the purpose of mobility. Microsoft should have created 10" and 12" models.

[WillysJeepMan]

Originally Posted by leebase

This takes the Mac Air from a "no brainer" to "hmmmm". If I had more use for the pen, I'd definitely want the surface. I'm not buying the "you won't need a tablet", as this thing would not replace my iPad. But could it replace my laptop? Maybe. None of the prior iterations of the Surface interested me. But I think this one should see some success (finally)

Where the Surface line (and Windows tablets in general) fall short is in the quantity of quality Modern UI apps.

My Surface 2 makes a terrific netbook, but a poor tablet... because of the apps.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by leebase

Ummm...oookay. You do realize that the early iterations of the PC were even worse, right? I got a good couple years out of the original iPad....but I haven't updated my home PC in many years. Wasn't true back when PC's were just new. Every iteration was far more powerful than the one before, and thus the software written for it wouldn't work well on the older models.

Considering that we built our first PC's, back in the early 80's, yes, of course I know that. I didn't say that new iterations of devices shouldn't be "more powerful." I said that they shouldn't be ABANDONED. Not quite the same thing.

I haven't bought a new PC to get "more power to run the latest apps" in 10 years. I buy them now when the old ones break down in such a way that it's cheaper for new than investing more money in old computers.

Yes, as do I, as I think I made clear vis-a-vis the Lenovo. Again, not my point; what I was talking about was Apple quite cavalierly determining not to update the first-gen iPad, in order to force people to buy newer ones. Surely you do realize that this has been their attitude for years? They abandon OS's, hardware, etc., with regularity. It's not an aberration, this thing with the iPad. I've certainly read about Apple-Angst vis-a-vis myriad OS'es, computers, etc., for years. It's a deliberate sales strategy.

And...were this true, wouldn't you expect the iPad tablets to be getting cheaper? I don't seem to recall ANY Apple product getting cheaper--ever. I can't speak to all the Mac products, I freely admit; but of the iPods I've bought for the other half, the iPhones his nieces/nephews seem obsessed with, and the iPad and mini-mac, can't say I've seen a PENNY cheaper over the years. All I see is more stuff that "looks cool" and costs the earth. Hey, I'm not knocking their business model if they can get away with it...but it's not for me as a "consumer" of tech products. I'll take a nice affordable PC any day that will have the same OS for 10 years. If the applications software outgrows it (like programs with XP), that's one thing--that's organic, and I can live with that. But being chucked over by an OS that isn't supported by the same company that sold the device? Nyaaaaaaaah, no. It's just not the same as continuing to use OLDER versions of the same program (say, not upgrading to Word 2013 because you're on XP); on an iPad, most apps will no longer RUN at ALL on the older, non-upgradeable iOS. That's the point.

My apps don't "not run" because the first-gen doesn't have enough POWER; they don't run because the OS wasn't updated. Compare that to MS supporting XP for, what, more than 12 years? (Which still runs on my Lenovo?) So, no: I don't think it's remotely comparable, and I was around for the "olden days" of things like the IBM PC's, floppies, and even before that...when I was working with TAPE (PDP8's and 10's), never mind 80-column punch cards. The latter, admittedly, not relevant to this particular discussion.

Tablets are simply at a much earlier point in the maturity cycle, and the iPad one is really "version 1" of the modern tablet era

Well, next time, I'll buy a nice used iPad2 or 3, because I'm not giving Apple another penny of MY money. I have already been stuck with the iPad and the (another Thou) Mac-mini thing that I'm using as another paperweight on my desk, because I occasionally have to phone-consult clients through Transporter, and to do that, need to be able to visualize what they are doing. (And, heavens forfend that a mere mortal with a PC be allowed to TRANSPORT a book! Ye GODS!) The OS on the mini also has been chucked, AFAIK. {shrug}. I guess Apple-people are accustomed to this type of treatment, but it's something that I find exceedingly off-putting.

I don't want to get in the middle of some "is too, is not" Apple-PC thing. My "consumer" experience with Apple has soured me on them. (I won't even bore everyone with the tedious story of how they couldn't manage to figure out WHY I couldn't create an iTunes Producer account for nearly two months--*I* had to figure it out, even getting jabbed with PAID support, mind you. It was as simple as, they didn't allow for an email address extension of ".biz." Geniuses. And they NEVER figured it out. No error-trapping for it; the thing would just sit there like a lump. OR, how Apple support tells people that mobi files are "corrupted" because they can't figure out that the moron at the other end of the line doesn't know how to download a file from their own email to their OWN Mac computer. I wish I had $100 for every time that's happened. I could buy a new car.)

Hitch