Opinions about Apple's announcement today?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

But there ARE other distributors for the itextbooks. In fact anybody can distribute them if it is for free. So the same restrictions do not apply.

Perhaps I misunderstood you. I thought your concern was the possibility that Apple might reject the book.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by teh603

Stopping the students from just doing a textbook copypasta is supposed to be the teacher's job, anyway. If you're stupid enough to let your students use the textbook as a source, then you really should move up to being a counselor or principal.

Um, no. Copy-paste is perfectly acceptable for direct quotes and endnotes when a direct reference is wanted. It's the difference between me quoting you in this post and me just saying "@teh603". And textbooks can and should be used as a source in many situations, particularly in the English/Literature classes.

(Also, could we not conflate "stupid" with the job of counselor and/or principal? I realize you're being Snarky On The Internet, but there are really good counselors and principals out there and how is this 'joke' necessary or useful to a discussion on Apple?)

[Laridae]

Apple is too proprietary in general. (I have no Apple products, I get "digital claustrophobia" just thinking about them)

I don't think we really want to give them a monopoly on our kids education, as much as they would love to have it.

If there's to be a standard for future textbooks it has to be Open. Perhaps ePub, or its succcessor?

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

So less restrictions apply, and that is a bad thing?

I believe you are conflating physical restrictions with legal ones.

There are fewer physical restrictions for ibooks in that -- even if the Apple store rejects the books -- you could still (presumably) sideload or download the books to an iPad and read the file format.

There are, however, legal restrictions being (apparently) imposed by the EULA that would curtail the above situation: it would seem that the ibooks created by the software may only be sold/distributed through the Apple store and if Apple rejects the textbook, the file becomes (legally) undistributable.

IANAL.

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

I believe you are conflating physical restrictions with legal ones.

There are fewer physical restrictions for ibooks in that -- even if the Apple store rejects the books -- you could still (presumably) sideload or download the books to an iPad and read the file format.

There are, however, legal restrictions being (apparently) imposed by the EULA that would curtail the above situation: it would seem that the ibooks created by the software may only be sold/distributed through the Apple store and if Apple rejects the textbook, the file becomes (legally) undistributable.

IANAL.

No, no, no... all it takes to distribute elsewhere is for the item to be free or in another version produced using a different tool but content can be the same and if Apple rejects it then, again, just means that the output from iAuthor isn't saleable but content can be used in any other output on any other platform, just not produced by iAuthor... all Apple are looking at is material produced in iAuthor being offered for sale on the Apple store... no different to any other app at the moment that you attempt to put on the store...

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

I believe you are conflating physical restrictions with legal ones.

There are fewer physical restrictions for ibooks in that -- even if the Apple store rejects the books -- you could still (presumably) sideload or download the books to an iPad and read the file format.

There are, however, legal restrictions being (apparently) imposed by the EULA that would curtail the above situation: it would seem that the ibooks created by the software may only be sold/distributed through the Apple store and if Apple rejects the textbook, the file becomes (legally) undistributable.

... for a fee, not for free. You can distribute them for free in any way you like.

And with iOS apps, which was what the books are being compared to, as the only current way to deliver the same type of content, those alternatives are not available. It is Apple store or nothing. With these books it is Apple store or free distribution. That is less restrictive than with iOS apps.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

... for a fee, not for free. You can distribute them for free in any way you like.

Which is not how it should work, in my opinion. The author owns the information, they should be able to sell the information how they see fit, regardless of the tool used to format the information.

I first wrote my novel in Microsoft Word. I would not support a clause in the Word EULA that said that Microsoft could dictate where and how I sold my .doc file. I now have the novel stored in Scrivener, and I use their export function combined with Sigil to create the final epub. I would not support a clause in the Scrivener and/or Sigil EULAs saying that their creators could dictate where and how I sold my .epub file.

Why are people so invested in saying that Apple should be allowed to effectively block sales of information because someone used their tool to format the information?

It's Okay If You're Apple, I guess.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Perhaps I misunderstood you. I thought your concern was the possibility that Apple might reject the book.

I am concerned by what happens if Apple rejects the book, but I don't agree with the analogy with an app.

Originally Posted by murraypaul

And with iOS apps, which was what the books are being compared to, as the only current way to deliver the same type of content, those alternatives are not available. It is Apple store or nothing. With these books it is Apple store or free distribution. That is less restrictive than with iOS apps.

If Apple isn't interested in selling an ibook, why isn't it possible for the author to use a different distributor? Why are the only options Apple store or free distribution?

Let me point out the problem with this:

Apple may determine for any reason and in its sole discretion not to select your Work for distribution.

Let's say a textbook is written by someone and a school/university chooses to use it. At a random moment it time Apple decides what not to distribute it. What can the school do? Make the author give them the book for free? Switch to another book?

[HarryT]

As I (and others) have already pointed out, exactly the same issues exist with book apps, which the interactive books that iBooks Author produces are a replacement for. Someone who is already producing book apps is going to lose nothing by switching to this tool.

[murraypaul]

I think people would be viewing this very differently if had been released as a set of APIs and a development tool to enable the quick building of iOS book apps. There it would be obvious that you had to sell through the Apple store, because all apps go through there.

[kovidgoyal]

Originally Posted by leebase

They are doing what first movers do.

Even if that were true, that does not make it right.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by HarryT

As I (and others) have already pointed out, exactly the same issues exist with book apps, which the interactive books that iBooks Author produces are a replacement for. Someone who is already producing book apps is going to lose nothing by switching to this tool.

As I (and others) have hopefully made clear, we take issue with Apple's approach regardless of whether this move is a new one or something that has already existed and we just didn't notice before.

Someone who is already producing book apps may stand to lose nothing, but quite a few people who have not yet entered the field and may be considering doing so stand to lose quite a lot.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by HarryT

As I (and others) have already pointed out, exactly the same issues exist with book apps, which the interactive books that iBooks Author produces are a replacement for. Someone who is already producing book apps is going to lose nothing by switching to this tool.

I thought that this was about breaking new ground and getting into textbooks.

[elcreative]

anamardoll... what is the problem with using a tool to create something that (when using that tool) can ONLY be used on an iOS device... and what is the problem in wanting a payment if you decide to sell the item for use on an iOS device when the tool to make it is FREE whereas if you want to produce the same item and content for another platform then you can, using a different tool suitable for that platform...

Why does everybody act like this is a new concept... there have been plenty of software tools that are free for personal use but need to be paid for if used commercially... same difference...

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

I thought that this was about breaking new ground and getting into textbooks.

There are textbooks and other books already out which are interactive and made as apps (see Alice), now anyone can do it more easily for iOS with a FREE tool...