Academics using Edge?

Hello

I'm wondering is the Edge the best machine for Academics/University Lecturers wanting to move entirely over to an online paperless existence. For example:

a) Reading journals articles formatted as PDF & annotating
b) Reading and commenting/marking-up Student scripts
c) General note-taking handwritten; typing notes using virtual keyboard

Is your academic workflow integrated well with the Edge? What are currently its main weaknesses in your opinion? If you've ever used a tablet pc, how does it compare?

thanks

I'm sure you'll get lots of responses. Meanwhile, here are some past discussions:
- http://www.entourageedge.com/forums/...PDF-annotation
- http://www.entourageedge.com/forums/...PDF-very-often
- http://www.entourageedge.com/forums/...he-eDGe-Review

http://ebooksconsidered.blogspot.com...rage-edge.html

Edited to add: Apparently I'm the only one here who needs lessons in brevity. :P

I've used 3 different tablet PCs, so I can at least compare to that experience for you:

1. JOURNAL:

The Journal program on the edge is quite comparable to the Journal program on Tablet PCs. I don't think you'll find much difference at all, except for navigation of menus. I use this program continuously throughout the day and have yet to have it crash on me. It's very stable and if you write on the blank background, there really is no lag at all. (Sometimes, the more there is on the background the slightly increased the lag becomes. Even then, I wouldn't say the lag is bad.) You do need to be aware, though, that handwriting recognition is not yet supported. So while you can write, the edge itself can't convert that to text. Not sure whether that's a deal breaker for you, and I think I mention below that with the help of Evernote on a PC I believe someone here has been able to get handwriting recognition.

Depending on which tablet PC you've used, one that requires a special pen or one that is simply a touch screen, the fact that your hand can touch the screen while you're writing without screwing up your notes might be a pleasant surprise. I much prefered my tablets that were not also touch screens with any surface, especially since I'm left handed.

I'm actually finding I'm now using the program in a way I didn't expect: I have my machine set up like a laptop (as if the e-ink side were the keys) and I write notes in landscape (even though that orientation isn't supported.) It really doesn't make much of a difference since all the icons are on the top/bottom (or for me, the two sides) and whether I see them rotated at 90 degrees or not doesn't make a big deal. So I mostly use the machine in "laptop mode" with an electronic writing surface. I can jot down notes while viewing web pages, reminders, etc. Without losing focus on my main window. In this way, the journal is actually better than a tablet PC, I really do find.

2. READING PDFS

I haven't yet had any trouble reading pdfs. Most of what I read are word documents exported as pdfs, scans of documents like our mail, and web pages printed as pdfs (sometimes after having gone through something like "readability" to strip out the non-text stuff). Some people here are better able to comment on quirks with zooming etc., but I really haven't had any trouble.

3. ANNOTATING PDFS

With the exception of highlighting, I haven't noticed much of a difference between how I would import a Pdf into Windows Journal note and write comments (I edited student papers that way) and opening up a pdf to add handwritten comments on the edge. Highlighting is better than it was on Day 1, but it's still tricky to get exactly what you want highlighted (it really does seem to depend on the formatting of the document and what the pdf treats as a "word" or "line"). It usually takes me 2 - 4 times to get only and exactly what I want highlighted, and I usually only care about highlighting when I want to add entries to the "table of contents." A very cool feature of the highlighting tool is that even for documents without tables of contents, one is created by adding highlights. (So, you can look at the TOC for a quick glance of bookmarks to everything highlighted.) This is great for an article "10 reasons to..." and if you highlight on 1. Reason #1 and 2. Reason #2 then you'll make your own TOC you can access. WIndows Journal doesn't do this, but maybe Evernote, GoBinder etc. do have this feature. If I don't care about a TOC, then instead of highlighting I usually just choose to underline or otherwise make handwritten annotations because it's quicker than getting the highlighting just right! I haven't had to print an annotated pdf yet (eg give back to a student with corrections); I've only exported handwritten journals/diagrams to pdf. I think Cheyennedonna commented recently about annotations showing up when you print/export, so I believe it works.

4.TYPING ON THE VIRTUAL KEYBOARD

It works, but I find it a tad too small and a notch too unreliable to do much touch typing. For the most part, I have an external keyboard connected to my machine. If I do use the virtual keyboard, it's usually by tapping with the stylus. Certainly, typed notes pales in comparison to handwritten notes. I still have never gotten around to using Evernote, but I believe someone commented that you can export your handwritten notes and have them OCR'd by Evernote. But, I don't think there's been a tablet PC virtual keyboard that really functioned much better. So in comparison to that of a tablet PC, I don't think you're sacrificing much.

5. OVERALL-COMPUTERISHNESS

The one thing to keep in mind compared to a tablet PC is that a tablet PC really is a full-blown personal computer. It runs windows, and therefore has a very common operating system as well as almost all the programs you could ever want. App selection is much more limited on the edge, and the apps that it does have are really meant to be used one at a time. (Although several do run in the background, it's just that you can only ever see one app on the screen at once - there's no concept of resizing windows to see two programs at once.)

That being said, I'm actually without any other machine right now and I'm using the edge as my only laptop/computer. So, there's very little in terms of essentials (web, email, twitter, documents) it can't do compared to a tablet PC, and some that, in my opinion, it does just as well or better. I love that the journal/pdf annotation is its own screen and the other is free for other apps running. I love the clamshell design and multiple positions it can be used in. I love. That it's one-click to turn a web page into a pdf or epub, since a lot of what I used to do was print articles off the web.

One of the reasons I felt comfortable taking the chance and pre-ordering when it first came out was because it seemed to be a true tabletPC-lite at 15-25% of the cost. (I've been on a mac for the last 3 years and missed tablet PC functions.) We are paperless at home (house sitter scans us email, we have fax to email services, use tablets to sign documents) and living much of the time on the road demands it. I've used the edge to sketch a quick floor plan and email it to a designer; to annotate a map with directions and landmarks for a friend coming to visit, to sign credit card authorization forms and fax via email... all without a bloated operating system. That being said, I've had to settle for a more app-based, minimal operating system, but my restrictions have been more like, "I wish there was a way to do this," instead of, "Windows needs your permission to continue," or a blue screen of death. It might be fair to say that with a tablet PC you might find yourself battling more with the software/OS, and with the edge you might find yourself battling more with the hardware. (It's not as "sleek" an experience as an iPad, for example, and seems a little clunky physically.) At least that's been my experience - my software/OS issues have more revolved around finding an app to do what I want rather than getting an app to work. Others might have different experiences.

Even as my only computer, this machine is holding up pretty well, and I would choose it over a tablet PC all things considered. In just the 6 or 7 months it's been out, there have already been noticable improvements. But, the people who are most satisfied with the device are those who don't mind that it takes 2 minutes to turn on or that you have to get used to a variety of buttons/menus. You really do have to want the unique features it does have (pdf/annotation/handwriting) because it helps you forgive some other little quirks (highlighting). It's still has the feel of a first generation device (physically) but there are lots of us here who absolutely love this thing. I don't think you'll find this feature set at this price anywhere else.

To add to sarah11918's comments about annotating pdfs, the annotations show up in the TOC as well, they just don't have a title. You can edit the TOC and give them a title if you want but just knowing I wrote something there is enough for me. I use the annotating exclusively to edit and comment on student papers. I send them back as pdfs with the annotation and they render beautifully on other machines and in color. I due use the blue "ink" and green "highlighter" so it stands out from the (usually) black type and the students can still print and highlight in other colors.

Hi. Just wanted to share my own experience with the Edge.

I work at a research center and my job involves a lot of applied math. Probably the one thing I use the most is the journal. I use it for mathematical derivations, or write ideas to try etc. Recently I have found that the calendar can be used quite nicely as a sort of research diary... I just wished the journal supported text entry and handwriting search...

I also find it useful to read books, highlight them and annotate them. If you read mathematical stuff that need derivations you can take a snapshot of the page to show it on the LCD, then go to the journal and do your derivation. Then you can just go back to the book and put a link to the journal on the book. This is very convenient.

Regarding journal papers, as long as they are not multicolumn, is great. Unluckily most journal I read are multicolumn (entire IEEE). You need to zoom in one of the columns. However the pan tools are so bad that makes it very difficult. If at least we had landscape mode of the eink! For multicolumn it may be better to just open the PDF on the LCD side. I wish they gave the option of using the ereader on the LCD so that we could annotate and highlight on the LCD as well.

I dont usually type notes on the LCD. However, recently I have been using thinking space to organize ideas and plan some things to do.

Originally Posted by jaggy

Hello

I'm wondering is the Edge the best machine for Academics/University Lecturers wanting to move entirely over to an online paperless existence. For example:

a) Reading journals articles formatted as PDF & annotating
b) Reading and commenting/marking-up Student scripts
c) General note-taking handwritten; typing notes using virtual keyboard

Is your academic workflow integrated well with the Edge? What are currently its main weaknesses in your opinion? If you've ever used a tablet pc, how does it compare?

thanks

@sarah11919: wow! thanks for such a detailed and thoughtful response. It's been really helpful to work out how functional the Edge in real-world use.

Originally Posted by sarah11918

... You do need to be aware, though, that handwriting recognition is not yet supported. So while you can write, the edge itself can't convert that to text. Not sure whether that's a deal breaker for you, and I think I mention below that with the help of Evernote on a PC I believe someone here has been able to get handwriting recognition.

On tablet pcs, I've found the handwriting works pretty well, as they use similar wacom technology, hopefully this can be brought to the Edge too.

Originally Posted by sarah11918

4.TYPING ON THE VIRTUAL KEYBOARD
It works, but I find it a tad too small and a notch too unreliable to do much touch typing. For the most part, I have an external keyboard connected to my machine. If I do use the virtual keyboard, it's usually by tapping with the stylus. Certainly, typed notes pales in comparison to handwritten notes.

This one thing that I'm really unsure about the Edge. I would like to have a physical keyboard built-in, but then it wouldn't be an Edge Else, if it would be possible for a virtual kb to be in landscape, and the upper screen to show the typed text. But given that screen is e-ink, that can't work? Or is it because the e-ink doesn't yet rotate? Having used the ipad's virtual kb in landscape, if found it to be really usable and for everyday note-taking very comfortable. If the Edge had something similar...

Originally Posted by sarah11918

...That being said, I'm actually without any other machine right now and I'm using the edge as my only laptop/computer. So, there's very little in terms of essentials (web, email, twitter, documents) it can't do compared to a tablet PC, and some that, in my opinion, it does just as well or better. I love that the journal/pdf annotation is its own screen and the other is free for other apps running. I love the clamshell design and multiple positions it can be used in. I love. That it's one-click to turn a web page into a pdf or epub, since a lot of what I used to do was print articles off the web.
...
Even as my only computer, this machine is holding up pretty well, and I would choose it over a tablet PC all things considered. In just the 6 or 7 months it's been out, there have already been noticable improvements. But, the people who are most satisfied with the device are those who don't mind that it takes 2 minutes to turn on or that you have to get used to a variety of buttons/menus. You really do have to want the unique features it does have (pdf/annotation/handwriting) because it helps you forgive some other little quirks (highlighting). It's still has the feel of a first generation device (physically) but there are lots of us here who absolutely love this thing. I don't think you'll find this feature set at this price anywhere else.

This seems to sum up really nicely the Edge, some of its strengths and current limits. With 1st gen technology, there's always an early adopters 'price' to pay + thrill!
I'm mindful that the Edge may be a bit on the chunky side and physically awkward. I even found this with relatively lightweight tablet pcs, their thickness and weight made them a bit unwieldly compared to a single screen tablet or an e-reader. But then again, that's like comparing apples to oranges.

If you're typing anything longer than a file name, you're going to need an external keyboard.

There are/were some developers who were able to jury-rig the eink side to run Android, which might make using the LCD as a keyboard possible, but that's not supported by Entourage and may have unhappy side effects.

Sarah.... Always worth reading... for pleasure ... and profit.

Thanks

Hi everyone,
My job requires that I read a lot of scientific PDFs. I did a lot of research before purchasing, and read through a lot of the forums. In the end, the EE seemed like the perfect device to help me store, annotate, and share these research articles. I've had my eDGe for about two weeks now, and, I have to admit, I'm a little disappointed.
First the strengths, as I view them, for an academic. The device is light, the tablet offers a lot of functionality (especially email and web access), and the eInk side is very easy to read. Storage, organization, and reading seem easy and intuitive.
The problems I'm having come with annotating the PDFs... the real reason I bought the device. The fact that you cannot read nor annotate in landscape mode is a big challenge. While the eInk screen size is generous as ereaders go, it still isn't the same size as a typical sheet of paper. This becomes problematic as scientific journals are already written using pretty small fonts. I thought, however, that this could easily be overcome by zooming in and scrolling around the pages. (Note: I was aware that reflow of these journals would not work well based on their formatting, but I though I could handle zooming as it would just add a few extra button clicks to read.) What I discovered is that if you zoom in on a document, make annotations (eg, underline a sentence and circle a word), when you scroll down the page or over to the other column, the annotations stay in the same place relative to the screen rather than relative to the words. That is, if you circled a word in the center of the zoomed-in screen, then click to view the right column, the circle stays in the middle of the screen and, therefore, is no longer circling the original word (I apologize if I'm not explaining this well.) For me, this makes the device almost useless for my purposes. I am praying that they get this fixed very quickly. If they're marketing the EE to students (and other academics), this is a major hurdle that has to be overcome quickly.
I would appreciate any suggestions people have for overcoming and/or dealing with this problem. The only thing I've thought to do is read the document at a zoom level where I can see the whole page. This works, but the text is SO SMALL! It is really difficult to read and make useful notes.

Thoughts? Comments?

Thanks!

jaggy: here are some photos of how I use the edge (physical configurations) so you can see that an external keyboard really isn't that much of a pain (even on a couch) because the edge can sit in a variety of ways -- http://s816.photobucket.com/albums/z...rah11918/eDGe/

Trust me, I'm a total lounger, and I was worried that I needed a keyboard built in because my laptop is really always on my lap when I'm at home. But, I even made a couch work just fine. And if I'm at a desk, the fact that the keyboard is external isn't a problem at all.

Dr T: the only suggestion I have, and admittedly it's not a great one, is to have a journal open while reading a pdf and make your notes about the pdf in the journal document. I've found myself doing this sometimes not because of zoom but because of not enough space in the margins etc. At least it's only one button press to switch to the open journal document, write your thoughts, then press back to the pdf. Again, not a great suggestion if the notes have to be right on the pdf, but if it's a matter of simply taking notes or recording thoughts, maybe it's enough just to make a mark on the pdf to create an entry in the TOC for reference and have more extensive notes in a corresponding journal?

I'm confident enTourage is becoming increasingly aware of the shortcomings of annotations vis a vis zooming and the lack of landscape, especially as more people are using the eDGe and repeatedly pointing out these two problems. I can only hope that enTourage is therefore increasing the pressure on the devs to come up with some solutions... To put it another way, eventually these problems will be solved - they're software issues after all, not fundamental hardware flaws.

Originally Posted by sarah11918

jaggy: here are some photos of how I use the edge (physical configurations) so you can see that an external keyboard really isn't that much of a pain (even on a couch) because the edge can sit in a variety of ways -- http://s816.photobucket.com/albums/z...rah11918/eDGe/

Dr T: the only suggestion I have, and admittedly it's not a great one, is to have a journal open while reading a pdf and make your notes about the pdf in the journal document. I've found myself doing this sometimes not because of zoom but because of not enough space in the margins etc. At least it's only one button press to switch to the open journal document, write your thoughts, then press back to the pdf. Again, not a great suggestion if the notes have to be right on the pdf, but if it's a matter of simply taking notes or recording thoughts, maybe it's enough just to make a mark on the pdf to create an entry in the TOC for reference and have more extensive notes in a corresponding journal?

Thanks very much for the suggestions. I am currently doing something like this now. It just adds a lot of time to an already jam-packed day... something the purchase of the eDGe was going to help eliminate. I still love the product; this particular shortcoming just hurts more than the others. Thanks for the advice!!

Originally Posted by Dr. T

Hi everyone,
My job requires that I read a lot of scientific PDFs. I did a lot of research before purchasing, and read through a lot of the forums. In the end, the EE seemed like the perfect device to help me store, annotate, and share these research articles. I've had my eDGe for about two weeks now, and, I have to admit, I'm a little disappointed.
First the strengths, as I view them, for an academic. The device is light, the tablet offers a lot of functionality (especially email and web access), and the eInk side is very easy to read. Storage, organization, and reading seem easy and intuitive.
The problems I'm having come with annotating the PDFs... the real reason I bought the device. The fact that you cannot read nor annotate in landscape mode is a big challenge. While the eInk screen size is generous as ereaders go, it still isn't the same size as a typical sheet of paper. This becomes problematic as scientific journals are already written using pretty small fonts. I thought, however, that this could easily be overcome by zooming in and scrolling around the pages. (Note: I was aware that reflow of these journals would not work well based on their formatting, but I though I could handle zooming as it would just add a few extra button clicks to read.) What I discovered is that if you zoom in on a document, make annotations (eg, underline a sentence and circle a word), when you scroll down the page or over to the other column, the annotations stay in the same place relative to the screen rather than relative to the words. That is, if you circled a word in the center of the zoomed-in screen, then click to view the right column, the circle stays in the middle of the screen and, therefore, is no longer circling the original word (I apologize if I'm not explaining this well.) For me, this makes the device almost useless for my purposes. I am praying that they get this fixed very quickly. If they're marketing the EE to students (and other academics), this is a major hurdle that has to be overcome quickly.
I would appreciate any suggestions people have for overcoming and/or dealing with this problem. The only thing I've thought to do is read the document at a zoom level where I can see the whole page. This works, but the text is SO SMALL! It is really difficult to read and make useful notes.

Thoughts? Comments?

Thanks!

This is useful to know, as that's how exactly I plan to use the Edge. It's really unfortunate that it's not usuable as it should be at the moment for marking up pdfs.

Though anotating academic PDFs can be tricky, as it depends how they've been formatted. I've used annotation software on a Windows pc tablet (e.g. Bluebeam PDF Revu), which has sophisticated zooming and I still found it awkward.

When marking up converted MS Word docs as pdfs, it's usually not difficult as font-size & margin spacing is fine. But often, you find on academic pdfs, the text can be natively small and there is not much margin space to hand annotate comments (and instead inserting comments in a box via the pdf software, rather like MS Word comments system, seems easier). Or you zoom in and write comments and then zoom out. But the Edge doesn't have that feature properly working yet. Even if it sorts out landscape rotation, this ends up restricting how much of the article you can see, which is a rather artifical way of reading a (dense academic) document. On a tablet pc, I found zoom in/out for writing comments hassle, and I got impatient when using it as it went against how I interact with pdf articles via quickly scribbling notes and marking up, going back and forth etc. (Of course everyone has their own method of working with texts, so my comments here may not be relevant!)

It makes me wonder if apart from simple highlighting and underlining, properly annotating academc pdfs is ever going to be really practical on e-readers (or tablets). Sure, Edge/other e-readers are great for allowing you to carry huge numbers of academic articles. But for close reading and interaction with a text and making hand-written markups, whether printed paper pdf and a fine-tiped pen ultimately leads to a simpler life?

Instead of investing in the Edge, I buy a decent light weight 10/12in e-reader (lots of new ones coming on the market) for general pdf reading, and invest in a sheet-feeder scanner/printer and actually re-scan my marked up pdfs....heretical thing to say on an Edge forum

I was going to suggest trying software that converts PDFs to EPUBs (since EPUBs adjust to the screen size easily), but apparently the conversion is never easy: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32185.