Japanese characters not showing up on some devices

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

Thanks for the info.

Have any insights into mass generating the images? And/or resizing them correctly to the text reliably?

I think I have a few workflow ideas with ImageMagick (similar to my formulas generation), but that's a whole other thing.

I am, in fact, working on something perhaps-new right this moment, for a book with many hundreds of non-unicode equations. (sigh). SVG in KF8 has been problematic, for some time, other than for the covers and even then, it's problematic.

And I personally haven't messed with inline images too much since way back during that SVG/apple thread.

And here I keep waiting for YOU to come up with The Answer, bud!

* * *

Side Note: For book club, I've recently been reading Jordan Peterson's latest book:

"Beyond Order: 12 More Rules for Life", published by Penguin Random House.

The EPUB had two Hebrew words in there as inline images:



with this CSS:

img.h1em-HEB {
	height: 1em;
	vertical-align: bottom;
}

it looks like it worked on my Android phone using "PocketBook Reader"... but I haven't thoroughly tested elsewhere.

Whut? they identified images as Hebrew? WHY?

And I'm glad to see they used the proper alt tags!

Yes, but why? For images????

Hitch

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Whut? they identified images as Hebrew? WHY?

Yes, but why? For images????

Almost exactly like this Japanese case... fonts missing Hebrew letters.

Plus who knows how a device might f-up rendering RTL languages within LTR text... especially RTL within an LTR sentence!

(Again, check out the fantastic Internationalization video + Harfbuzz talk on Arabic/Hebrew/East-Asian font rendering.)

Of course, I'd prefer the actual Unicode Hebrew within my EPUBs... but it was an "okay" solution. (And using proper alt means TTS + you can substitute or regenerate in the future!)

* * *

Actually, I think they may have botched the ebook slightly.

Originals:




LibreOffice Writer (v7.1.3.2):



1st word's alt text is definitely missing the 2nd chunk.

In 2nd example, LibreOffice has 2 dots above. In original image, it's two dots below.

Unsure which rendering is correct though, since I don't read Hebrew.

Originally Posted by Hitch

And here I keep waiting for YOU to come up with The Answer, bud!

lol, I know you have the solution. Just spread the knowledge and tell me!!!

Closest thing I ever come across in all my books is Polytonic Greek. (Written about many times over the years.)

And luckily, nearly all inline equations I come across can all be converted to simple form. So something like this:

          1
________________________
 1 + 2 + 3 + ... + n

can be converted to:

1 / (1 + 2 + 3 + ... + n)

Originally Posted by Hitch

I am, in fact, working on something perhaps-new right this moment, for a book with many hundreds of non-unicode equations. (sigh).

Uh oh, another Thermodynamics book?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

Almost exactly like this Japanese case... fonts missing Hebrew letters.

Plus who knows how a device might f-up rendering RTL languages within LTR text... especially RTL within an LTR sentence!

?? Maybe I misread your post, but didn't you post code that simply displayed an image of the text? Did I misread it?

Uh oh, another Thermodynamics book?

Would I do that to you??????

Hitch

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by Hitch

?? Maybe I misread your post, but didn't you post code that simply displayed an image of the text? Did I misread it?

Yes. Displayed (Hebrew) text as an inline image.

Isn't that what we were talking about?

You mentioned Kanji = two versions: 1 embedded fonts + 1 media-query images.

I mentioned latest book I've been reading: inline Hebrew images.

Originally Posted by Hitch

Would I do that to you??????

Well, it was definitely fun pushing the boundaries. Pushed me to learn a ton more about Maths/Equation typesetting as well.

And you can't just go dangling the word "equations" out there and not let me know at least a little bit of details! I must know!

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

Yes. Displayed (Hebrew) text as an inline image.

Isn't that what we were talking about?

You mentioned Kanji = two versions: 1 embedded fonts + 1 media-query images.

I mentioned latest book I've been reading: inline Hebrew images.

I see. You were discussing it as if it also had text. Gotcha. Yes, that's what we do for Kanji (or anything else that has MQs with text in one "version" and images in the other); wrap them in lang tags and pray a lot.

Well, it was definitely fun pushing the boundaries. Pushed me to learn a ton more about Maths/Equation typesetting as well.

And you can't just go dangling the word "equations" out there and not let me know at least a little bit of details! I must know!

Honestly, it would take a LOT to convince me to ever do that again. Noit to mention that effectively, between the line-edit, etc., we worked on it for over a year. Ugh.

(This is a book on statistics and the bigger issue are what I refer to as b-hats, or hatted-bs. Hatted-S'es have a unicode character, but hatted-Bs do not, so we'll have to do all the hatted-bs, and all the fraction equations, as images. [sigh].) And you know, inline SVG in "Kindle" (aka, MOBI or ePUB or whatever damned format) doesn't work right. Bugger.)

Fun working with YOU, though, snookums.

Hitch

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Hatted-S'es have a unicode character, but hatted-Bs do not, so we'll have to do all the hatted-bs, and all the fraction equations, as images.

You could have used combining circumflex and kept praying

B̂

It looks like crap on this site in my browser with whatever sans-serif font it's using, but pretty decent on a separate HTML file with the default (Deja Vu Serif) font:

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Jellby

You could have used combining circumflex and kept praying

B̂

It looks like crap on this site in my browser with whatever sans-serif font it's using, but pretty decent on a separate HTML file with the default (Deja Vu Serif) font:

Tried it. Doesn't work for eBooks, at all. And the customer was NOT interested in hedging it that way, without the ability to place the circumflex directly OVER the b. (sigh).

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Tried it. Doesn't work for eBooks, at all. And the customer was NOT interested in hedging it that way, without the ability to place the circumflex directly OVER the b. (sigh).

Hitch

There is a way to do it. Modify a font and embed it.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

There is a way to do it. Modify a font and embed it.

Jon, do you also try to teach your grandmother to suck eggs? Of course I could do that--right up until that hits the KF7 wall, or the device-that-doesn't-display-embedded-fonts wall.

The customer doesn't want that, and neither do I. Even Cambria's math glyphs don't have the bloody thing. There is no b-hat unicode and believe me, we looked.

Hell, there are Stack Exchange whinges about it!

Hitch

[Turtle91]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Jon, do you also try to teach your grandmother to suck eggs?

OK.... I am definitely NOT making any kind of implication as to your actual age or experience.... but.... was "sucking eggs" a real thing?!?!? I always thought it was just a saying: "Go suck eggs!"

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

but.... was "sucking eggs" a real thing?!?!? I always thought it was just a saying: "Go suck eggs!"

It MIGHT just be saying, because it makes no sense. It's too difficult. It's simpler to break the egg and beat it if you want it raw, but scrambled egg is edible with no teeth and as old as pita (flat bread), i.e. ancient.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teachi...r_to_suck_eggs
Pizza pre-dates tomato. It's a corruption of pita, which originally was just flat bread, not "pocket bread".

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Jon, do you also try to teach your grandmother to suck eggs? Of course I could do that--right up until that hits the KF7 wall, or the device-that-doesn't-display-embedded-fonts wall.

The customer doesn't want that, and neither do I. Even Cambria's math glyphs don't have the bloody thing. There is no b-hat unicode and believe me, we looked.

Hell, there are Stack Exchange whinges about it!

Hitch

Would an SVG graphic of the B-hat work on a Kindle in KF8 and KFX?

And as for Amazon, they really Fed up with embedded fonts. They should automatically select the publisher font option.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Would an SVG graphic of the B-hat work on a Kindle in KF8 and KFX?

And as for Amazon, they really Fed up with embedded fonts. They should automatically select the publisher font option.

I agree vis: the Publisher Font option and it's....infuriating.

No, you can't use inline SVGs, at least, not as of my last test. Everytime you put a bloody SVG (which is, mind you, allegedly "supported" for KF8/KFX!), you get an inadvertent page-break (screen break). Works fine for full-page/screen images, natch--but it's utterly worthless for inline.

Trust me, Jon--I swear to you, this is something we've searched high and low on. Unless KDP has changed something around SVG, in the last...say, 4 months, the ONLY solution so far is (regular, JPEG/GIF/PNG) images and yes, I hate it.

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I agree vis: the Publisher Font option and it's....infuriating.

No, you can't use inline SVGs, at least, not as of my last test. Everytime you put a bloody SVG (which is, mind you, allegedly "supported" for KF8/KFX!), you get an inadvertent page-break (screen break). Works fine for full-page/screen images, natch--but it's utterly worthless for inline.

Trust me, Jon--I swear to you, this is something we've searched high and low on. Unless KDP has changed something around SVG, in the last...say, 4 months, the ONLY solution so far is (regular, JPEG/GIF/PNG) images and yes, I hate it.

Hitch

That is too bad. That makes some eBooks not a good as the could/should be. It can be difficult to read a graphic that's meant to be regular text. This is one reason I stick with ePub. I forget which book it was,but there was a phrase in Hebrew and the graphic used was not good on screen. I removed the graphic and used an embedded font. It worked well in ePub.

Sorry Amazon makes these sorts of things a pain in the ass.