superscript code

[roger64]

Originally Posted by Hitch

The thing is a horror, in eBook format. I don't know what they did, what they were thinking...it's boggy as hell (which, yes, was going to occur with over 1100 pages), and the reality I faced, when I clicked links that took me to the NOTES section, but *not to the note in question,* that was pretty mind-blowing.

Hitch

What's the formatting used for anchors and definitions of these endnotes?
- If you can count these anchors (and only these anchors), then you can give them a specific class.
- You do the same for the definition endnotes (count, give a class).
Mind, both counts must be identical.
- Then the plugin FootnoteLinker can automatically create links for all these left over endnotes.

If you provide me with a scrambled copy of this book, I can make a try.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by roger64

What's the formatting used for anchors and definitions of these endnotes?
- If you can count these anchors (and only these anchors), then you can give them a specific class.
- You do the same for the definition endnotes (count, give a class).
Mind, both counts must be identical.
- Then the plugin FootnoteLinker can automatically create links for all these left over endnotes.

If you provide me with a scrambled copy of this book, I can make a try.

I'm going to ask Tex to do this for me. I know, I know, I suck, but TEEEEXXXXX, can you sharesies with Roger, pretty please?

Hitch

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by roger64

It must have an unfavourable impact over the vertical positioning of the note anchor. It would seem logical to replace the bracket by a dash so as not to perturb it but this would have to face established usage... Well...

The bracket suggestion is instead of superscripting, and it's also common in plain-text contexts. In any case, adding brackets should not change at all the line spacing, if the brackets have the same size/position/etc. as the number. From the point of view of the line spacing, it doesn't matter which characters you have, they're just boxes with something drawn inside (or sometimes outside). What could happen is that a bracket clashes with the line above/below where another character wouldn't, but this shouldn't be the case in normal circumstances.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Jellby

The bracket suggestion is instead of superscripting, and it's also common in plain-text contexts. In any case, adding brackets should not change at all the line spacing, if the brackets have the same size/position/etc. as the number. From the point of view of the line spacing, it doesn't matter which characters you have, they're just boxes with something drawn inside (or sometimes outside). What could happen is that a bracket clashes with the line above/below where another character wouldn't, but this shouldn't be the case in normal circumstances.

IMHO, Brackets work well. Even reading on my Oasis/Voyage/whatever it is, at font size 7, superscripts are a bear to tap. Worse on my Samsung Note 9 phone, which is hardly small for a phone.

Brackets, right inline[1] are much, much easier to tap. I've even sometimes used a background gray shade, over the 3-4-5 chars [123] (assume a gray-shaded background there) to show the reader where to tap. I think it's vastly superior to superscripts and i was an adamant supporter of superscripts for a long time. No longer. Ease of use and effectiveness is my motto these days.

Hitch

[Turtle91]

Originally Posted by Hitch

... Ease of use and effectiveness is my motto these days.

Hitch

But....but....but... It has to loook pretty....

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

But....but....but... It has to loook pretty....

Bold, fancy font, in gray color (to make it less intrusive)

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I've even sometimes used a background gray shade, over the 3-4-5 chars [123] (assume a gray-shaded background there) to show the reader where to tap.

Originally Posted by Jellby

Bold, fancy font, in gray color (to make it less intrusive)

These are some pretty good ideas.

Some sites do a similar thing when displaying RPNs (Real Page Numbers).

Originally Posted by Hitch

I'm going to ask Tex to do this for me.

Of course. Email me a copy and I'll convert whatever you need.

Originally Posted by Hitch

I know, I know, I suck, but TEEEEXXXXX, can you sharesies with Roger, pretty please?

Share what now? lol.

I acquired mine via the high seas library!

As I said, only grabbed for research purposes. It was a Calibre-converted version though (oh, how that grinds my gears), so that's why I only took guesstimates at how the original code looked.

... But now that you mentioned it, I hunted down an actual EPUB. (Original is a 39.4MB EPUB, not the 11MB converted junk.)

* * *

Now, this is the true code:

Within the text:

Spoiler:

<p class="EB03BodyTextIndented" id="chu0002819">‘Winston revelled over our success!’ wrote Brooke the next day.<sup class="EBsup"><a href="../Text/chapter028_notes.xhtml#ch28_3" id="ch28-3">3</a></sup><a class="noteref" epub:type="noteref" href="../Text/footnotes004.xhtml#ch28_1" id="ch28-fn1">fn1</a> [...]</p>

In the Endnotes chapter:

Spoiler:

<p class="endnotes" id="chu0004795"><span class="strong"><a href="chapter028.xhtml#ch28-1" id="ch28_1">1</a>.</span> <em>CS</em> VI p. 6704&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;<span class="strong"><a href="chapter028.xhtml#ch28-2" id="ch28_2">2</a>.</span> ed. Gorodetsky, <em>Maisky Diaries</em> p. 510&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;<span class="strong"><a href="chapter028.xhtml#ch28-3" id="ch28_3">3</a>.</span> eds. Danchev and Todman, <em>War Diaries</em> p. 340&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;[...]</p>

In the Footnotes chapter:

Spoiler:

<aside class="footnote" epub:type="footnote" id="ch28_1" role="doc-footnote"><p class="EB02BodyTextFullOut" id="chu00493"><a class="footnote_return" href="../Text/chapter028.xhtml#ch28-fn1">fn1</a> Years later Brooke added, ‘I think this is the only occasion on which he expressed publicly any appreciation or thanks for work I had done during the whole of the period I worked for him’ (eds. Danchev and Todman, <em>War Diaries</em> p. 340). [...]</p>
</aside>

Notes:

In the frontmatter:

• Every endnote is wrapped in a:
  
  • <sup class="EBsup">
    
  • <a
    
    • href="../Text/chapter028_notes.xhtml#ch28_3" id="ch28-3">
      
• Every footnote is wrapped in a:
  
  • <a class="noteref" epub:type="noteref"
    
    • href="../Text/footnotes004.xhtml#ch28_1" id="ch28-fn1">
      

then in the backmatter:

• Every endnote is wrapped in a:
  
  • <span class="strong">
    
  • <a href="chapter028.xhtml#ch28-1" id="ch28_1">
    
• Every footnote is wrapped in a:
  
  • <aside class="footnote" epub:type="footnote" id="ch28_1" role="doc-footnote">
    
  • <p class="EB02BodyTextFullOut" id="chu00493">
    
  • <a class="footnote_return" href="../Text/chapter028.xhtml#ch28-fn1">
    

I ran through Kindle Previewer 3 to test. Clicking on:

• Footnote does popup
• Endnote jumps you to the enormous single paragraph.
  
  • In Sigil, cursor appears in actual note location.
    
  • No clue if actual device would jump there or to the beginning of the entire paragraph.

I couldn't reproduce broken/wrong links, although I only clicked on a handful of notes.

Honestly, it doesn't seem so, so bad. It could easily be regexed into submission.

And then one regex to split all those endnotes into actual individual paragraphs... that might even fix the popup issue.

I think the only real "issue" is the sheer size of this behemoth:

• 478k words
• 5378 endnotes
• 292 footnotes

[roger64]

Thanks for posting the code online.

So footnotes are OK. With the aside, one can get pop-up (or inline notes).

As you said, the problem lies with these 5000+ endnotes. They use a "classical" code. As I have only one code example, I can only suppose that they do not link to each corresponding individual endnote paragraph but to the same and-huge-endnote folder.

Every endnote is wrapped in a:

    <p class="endnotes" id="chu0004795">
    <span class="strong">
    <a href="chapter028.xhtml#ch28-1" id="ch28_1">

If one wishes to target each individual endnote paragraph from each anchor, it seems necessary to rebuild all the links for endnotes.

This seems doable but it's more easily said than done... The code seems to allow it (count and class seems OK) but would probably need to be simplified or cleaned (unified?) using regex.

Also, I know that for over 2000 notes, once the links have been created, one has to split the endnote folder in two or three parts. With 5000 (!), it would be more.

If it was made working, the display of the individual notes numbers in the anchors would probably not be very nice. [4795] really? A bit distracting. We would have to use a smallish font-size...

That's all I can say...

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by roger64

Thank for posting the code online.

So footnotes are OK. With the aside, one can get pop-up (or inline notes).

As you said, the problem lies with these 5000+ endnotes. They use a "classical" code. As I have only one code example, I can only suppose that they do not link to each corresponding individual endnote paragraph but to the same and-huge-endnote folder.

Every endnote is wrapped in a:

    <p class="endnotes" id="chu0004795">
    <span class="strong">
    <a href="chapter028.xhtml#ch28-1" id="ch28_1">

If one wishes to target each individual endnote paragraph from each anchor, it seems necessary to rebuild all the links for endnotes.

This seems doable but it's more easily said than done... The code seems to allow it (count and class seems OK) but would probably need to be simplified or cleaned using regex.

Also, I know that for over 2000 notes, once the links have been created, one has to split the endnote folder in two or three parts. With 5000 (!), it would be more.

However, even if it was made working, the display of the notes numbers would probably not be very nice. [4795] really? We would have to use a smallish font-size...

That's all I can say...

Crap, now I'm going to have to dive back into this file. I know--I know, because I had an argument about it with a customer who wanted all this fruitcakey footnoes+endnotes+author's notes (WTF?) stuff--that Churchill has non-working, non-fuctional notes. I forget what it is now, dammit, but either you get to the Endnotes and then can't get Back, or something.

Damn damn damn. Now I'm going to have to mess with it. I have work and other work this weekend--slave labor in menial garage-clearing chores that cannot wait--but I'll see if I can find the instances I'm talking about.

I SWEAR, there are more unworking things, in Churchill and Notes, than are dreamt of in your endote philsophy, Tex!

Hitch

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by roger64

As you said, the problem lies with these 5000+ endnotes. They use a "classical" code. As I have only one code example, I can only suppose that they do not link to each corresponding individual endnote paragraph but to the same and-huge-endnote folder.

The Churchill endnotes point directly to the correct location/ID:

Frontmatter:

<a href="../Text/chapter028_notes.xhtml#ch28_3" id="ch28-3">3</a>

Backmatter:

<a href="chapter028.xhtml#ch28-3" id="ch28_3">3</a>

Just the thing is, it's just one giant <p> with individual <span>s.

Originally Posted by roger64

If one wishes to target each individual endnote paragraph from each anchor, it seems necessary to rebuild all the links for endnotes.

I don't see why.

You'd just:

Find: <span class="strong"><a href="chapter

Replace: </p> <p class="endnote"><span class="strong"><a href="chapter

Then Prettify, and bing, bang, boom, every endnote is in its own paragraph. All links would still be the same/working.

Originally Posted by roger64

[...] but would probably need to be simplified or cleaned (unified?) using regex.

Normalized. One of my favorite terms.

Originally Posted by roger64

Also, I know that for over 2000 notes, once the links have been created, one has to split the endnote folder in two or three parts. With 5000 (!), it would be more.

Depends. Right now:

• Each chapter's endnotes are split into its own files.
  
  • 34 chapters, 34 endnote files.
    
• Footnotes are split into 5 separate files, with some chapters combined.

In total, ~673 KB of endnotes + ~135KB of footnotes.

But once you strip bloated code, you can usually squeeze notes into a single file.

But yes, in this case of this many notes, individual files are great. :P

Side Note: For example, that history book I mentioned above? One of the very rare cases I did separate notes files to stay under the ~300KB filesize limit:

7 chapters, ~430 KBs of footnotes. 1 normal chapter was even ~40k words (~350KB), so I had to split that in half.

I think I've only ever done 2 or 3 books where I had to do that...

Originally Posted by roger64

If it was made working, the display of the individual notes numbers in the anchors would probably not be very nice. [4795] really? A bit distracting. We would have to use a smallish font-size...

Yes, this is also an issue that came up while I was typesetting the physical book:

The author originally had per-book numbering—1->1900.

I suggested going with per-chapter numbering—1->### + 1->###.

That "one/two character difference" saved so many pages, plus made the text much more readable. In later chapters, you had the absurd superscript 1000s taking up huge portions of the actual lines!

• This is an example with two footnotes.1008,1009 And two more.1010,1011
• This is an example with two footnote.[8][9] And two more.[10][11]
• This is an example with two footnote.8,9 And two more.10,11

Luckily, this Churchill book, they made the sensible per-chapter choice. :P

Originally Posted by Hitch

Crap, now I'm going to have to dive back into this file. I know--I know, because I had an argument about it with a customer who wanted all this fruitcakey footnoes+endnotes+author's notes (WTF?) stuff--that Churchill has non-working, non-fuctional notes. I forget what it is now, dammit, but either you get to the Endnotes and then can't get Back, or something.

I believe you.

A potential hickup is the footnotes chapters are marked as non-linear in the spine, so perhaps that was breaking the jump back/forth.

Originally Posted by Hitch

I SWEAR, there are more unworking things, in Churchill and Notes, than are dreamt of in your endote philsophy, Tex!

Sure, sure, whatever you say.

Another thing that could've happened is maybe you have an older version of the file.

Was an updated one released?

From the metadata, looks like the book was released:

2018-09-19

but in my actual zipped up files metadata, I see:

2018-10-04

Although that could just be an artifact of when it was DeDRMed.

(I dug through the EPUB's metadata and couldn't find any info on a tool, version numbers, or when files were created.)

But maybe you purchased close to release and got some awful 1st copy. Don't most of the stores stick you with one whatever version was latest at the time of purchase, in order for Highlights/Syncing to stay in tact?

Side Note: A while back, when I reported that wrongly-marked-language ebook, I was made aware that Kobo does this too!

He told me the version on their server already had my error fixed... and the only way to get the updated file is to inform Kobo so they could update it on your account! ABSURD!!!

I want the goddamn latest version all the time. That's how it was when I used to purchase+download from B&N. (But they've since gone completely down the toilet.)

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

Was an updated one released?

From the metadata, looks like the book was released:

2018-09-19

but in my actual zipped up files metadata, I see:

2018-10-04

Although that could just be an artifact of when it was DeDRMed.

(I dug through the EPUB's metadata and couldn't find any info on a tool, version numbers, or when files were created.)

But maybe you purchased close to release and got some awful 1st copy. Don't most of the stores stick you with one whatever version was latest at the time of purchase, in order for Highlights/Syncing to stay in tact?

Side Note: A while back, when I reported that wrongly-marked-language ebook, I was made aware that Kobo does this too!

He told me the version on their server already had my error fixed... and the only way to get the updated file is to inform Kobo so they could update it on your account! ABSURD!!!

I want the goddamn latest version all the time. That's how it was when I used to purchase+download from B&N. (But they've since gone completely down the toilet.)

In the copyright of this eBook at the bottom on the page it shows Version_4. The copy I have was downloaded this month.

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

In the copyright of this eBook at the bottom on the page it shows Version_4. The copy I have was downloaded this month.

And the version I have has nothing special on the copyright page, so perhaps I acquired v1.

Maybe Hitch's version just so happened to be a super buggy release.

The points still stand though... very odd decisions with the Footnotes/Endnotes.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

And the version I have has nothing special on the copyright page, so perhaps I acquired v1.

Maybe Hitch's version just so happened to be a super buggy release.

The points still stand though... very odd decisions with the Footnotes/Endnotes.

Oh, yes, I don't care what version you got--very odd decision tree. I get that they had a lotta lotta data to manage, but still.

God, I really don't want to dive back in that sucker.

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Oh, yes, I don't care what version you got--very odd decision tree. I get that they had a lotta lotta data to manage, but still.

God, I really don't want to dive back in that sucker.

Hitch

It seems v4 has a lot of fixed things that never should have been broken in the first place.

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Oh, yes, I don't care what version you got--very odd decision tree. I get that they had a lotta lotta data to manage, but still.

Someone sent me v4 of the Churchill book.

Last updated 2019-10-10.

Definitely looks pretty fixed up, and much better than it was on initial release:

• Footnotes/Endnotes seem to be working.
  
  • And Endnotes aren't in one big paragraph now!
• Added the entire Index.
• Much higher resolution images.
• Working RPNs (Real Page Numbers)
• A handful of typo corrections.

A few degradations though:

• Footnotes changed from "fn1" -> "*" form.
• Every footnote split into its own individual file.
  
  • Why, just why?
• Endnotes merged into huge single file.
  
  • Currently ~900 KBs, so would crash on old devices with ~300 KB filesize limits.
• They even introduced a typo:
  
  • Katyń -> Katyn′
    
    • n with acute -> n + prime character!

A semi-detailed changelog between v1->v4 below:

Spoiler:

Index
- v1 had nothing.

Endnote code changed:
- v1
-- <sup class="EBsup"><a href="chapter001_notes.xhtml#ch1_21" id="ch1-21">21</a></sup>
- v4
-- <a href="139_Notes.xhtml#EndnoteNumber20" id="SuperscriptNumber20"><sup class="endnote">21</sup></a>
-- Although you can tell this was probably all generated by a custom workflow. And the generated ids started from 0, so they're "off by one".

Footnote code too:
- v1
-- <a class="noteref" epub:type="noteref" href="../Text/footnotes001.xhtml#ch1_3" id="ch1-fn3">fn3</a>
- v4
-- <span id="footnote-004-backlink"><a class="_idFootnoteLink" epub:type="noteref" href="144_Footnote.xhtml#footnote_3" role="doc-noteref">*</a></span>
-- Although they DEGRADED by going back to the * form.

New section break code
- v1 had the dreaded "margin + noindent" as the section breaks.
-- <p class="EB01BodyTextLineSpace" id="chu0000240">
- v4
-- <hr class="transition"/>
<div aria-hidden="true" class="x04-Space-Break-Orn">*</div>
<p class="EB01BodyTextLineSpace" id="chu0000240">

Frontmatter (copyright page, etc.) in front
- v1 had in back.

Fixed RPNs
- v1 had some accidentally leftover from XML
-- <?pagebreak number="7"?><a id="pg7"/>
<span epub:type="pagebreak" id="pg11"/>
- v4
-- <span epub:type="pagebreak" id="page_7" title="7"/>

Much higher resolution images.

<em> -> <i>
- In this book it makes sense, since all (?) are actual book titles / ship names.

Attached their "spaced en dashes" with a nbsp before them.
- (This is okay typography, although I don't do it in ebooks because of ugly code + potentially bad justification.)
- I only do that in LaTeX/Print.

Ellipsis character -> spaced periods
- Good, I like this.

Single, huge file for Endnotes + Index
- They are both >900 KBs. Should be split to fit below that ~300 KBs limit

Footnotes are all in their own individual files.
- No, just no.

Anyway, I only skimmed through Chapters 1-6. Almost everything was just overhauling code changes.