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Old 06-15-2012, 06:41 PM   #1
AndrewH
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Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen

I started reading Steven Erikson's Gardens of the Moon, the first book in his 10-book epic series Malazan Book of the Fallen, a week ago. So far I'm about about a hundred pages in (which is painfully slow progress for me) and wondering if I should continue.

I'm totally confused on what's happening in the book. I understand this is typical, but at what point will I no longer be confused? By the end of the book? By the end of the sixth book? By the end of the last book?

I feel absolutely no connection to the (ridiculously named) characters. Will I care for any of them by the end of the book, or the end of the series?

What is it, exactly, that people find so great about this series? It certainly isn't the prose, nor the dialogue. From what I've seen so far it can't be the characterizations.

When does it start to "get good"? We've all heard people exclaim about how great such-and-such series is, but that it doesn't start to get good until the third or fourth book. Reading this definitely does not feel like entertainment, so how much further would I have to slog through the series before it starts to get better?

I'm not adverse to complex plots (A Song of Ice and Fire, The Fionavar Tapestry, Gormenghast Trilogy), hundreds of characters (A Song of Ice and Fire), nor meandering stories that take a long time to reach their destination (Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell). However, I'm not sure I want to stick with Malazan Book of the Fallen if its saving grace is simply its complexity and that it will require a dozen re-reads to truly appreciate it.

On a completely unrelated note, the editing on the ebooks is horrifyingly bad. Almost every occurrence of italicized text has one or two words that aren't properly italicized. Half the appearances of "Whiskeyjack" appear as "Whiskey jack". By far, the absolute worst edited (retail) ebook I've ever seen.

Last edited by AndrewH; 06-15-2012 at 07:48 PM. Reason: Typo.
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Old 06-16-2012, 12:53 AM   #2
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They are not ridiculously named, because those are not their names. They are supposed to be in-universe army nicknames. So yeah...

Carrying on, it is often said that Gardens of the Moon is the worst book of the series. However, you have to keep in mind that the confused feeling you are experiencing will never completely go away. Erikson will never stop the story just to give you an info-dump. You'll have to stay alert, and figure things piece by piece as they are mentioned.

I do grant you, Steven is not a master of characterization, however I personally find that while not 'perfect' the characters are distinct enough for the scope.

And this is my first read, I am up to Midnight Tides (#5), have done no re-reads and I am very much in love with what I have read, and what I will read. For me, it is the prose, and it is the dialogue, and the stories about the world told in the book. And the way they are told

I really hope you at least finish Gardens of the Moon~

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Old 06-16-2012, 01:03 AM   #3
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If it's not to your taste, then it's not to your taste and if you actively don't like it after 100 pages, I'd suggest you call it a day soon and move on to a different book.

Other than that I can't really answer the questions. I loved Gardens of the Moon from page one and found the books in the series to range from just plain good to simply great, but as I'm not in the habit of analysing the books I read I can't really give you a detailed explanation of why. My experience was pretty much diametrically opposite to yours though: I enjoyed the characters, didn't find the names any more ridiculous than in any other fantasy series, found the characterisation more than adequate and above all just loved the world it was set in.

On the other hand I've absolutely no problem seeing that it's extremely unlikely to be to everyone's taste. And if you struggle with it, I'd just chuck it in. Life's too short to struggle with books.
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Old 06-16-2012, 03:51 AM   #4
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I have never been able to get past book 7, although I had hopes enough that I bought the next one when it came out. I am trying again now that I have ebooks, and I am finding it much easier going. Yes, there are a few editing errors, but the ability to bookmark and search has come in very helpful. I liked Gardens of the Moon quite a bit, but I found that it got harder to keep track as I went on. And I did like the characters. Tattersail, Ganoes Paran, etc. Some of the books jump around so you are introduced to a whole new cast of characters and a whole new storyline. In the book I am reading, Reaper's Gale, some of those storylines are starting to finally pull together.

I don't know if I could tell you specifically why I like them. I do like epics, and this one makes me use my brain. I can't just skim through and read fast or I'll miss something important. I like the characters. Even the "good guys" are heavily flawed. I find the twists and turns engaging.
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Old 06-16-2012, 05:25 AM   #5
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I say give up. I didn't get it either. I don't understand what people like about it.

I did push through Gardens of the Moon, although I had to stop and read something else half way, and it dd get better in the latter half, but not by nearly enough to make to me read the next one. I never cared about any of the characters, and none of their motivations made any sense.
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Old 06-16-2012, 06:31 AM   #6
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The promise of "it gets better" has never been enough for me to continue what feels like a slog--book or series. And I simply don't give free passes to whole books in a series; beginning, middle or otherwise. If they can't all be really good, there's probably too many in your series. As others have mentioned, it doesn't really sound like you should continue; there's nothing wrong with "it's just not working for me"... regardless of how many people might sing a book's/series' praises.

On the other hand; I'd also say it would be worth trying it again at some point down the road. There's a lot to when a book's read in a person's life. Many's the time I've found myself thoroughly enjoying a book that I previously had to put down for lack of interest.

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Old 06-16-2012, 06:55 AM   #7
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I recently read Dr. Zhizago. After about 100 pages or so I realized I couldn't just read it like an ordinary novel. The new ebook translation has many footnotes describing particular aspects of Russian culture and literature that also help to make the book make sense. As opposed to just chucking it and going on to something else, I decided to start over and reread the first 100 pages more carefully. When I did that I really enjoyed the book.

That said what you are reading is not Dr. Zhivago. I probably wouldn't feel compelled to start Erikson's series over. I'd probably move on.
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Old 06-16-2012, 08:00 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
The promise of "it gets better" has never been enough for me to continue what feels like a slog--book or series. And I simply don't give free passes to whole books in a series; beginning, middle or otherwise. If they can't all be really good, there's probably too many in your series. .................................................. ........
Well said Diap ......
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Old 06-16-2012, 01:06 PM   #9
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They are not ridiculously named, because those are not their names. They are supposed to be in-universe army nicknames,
Oh! Well, that makes sense. However, this fact could have been mentioned earlier in the novel... 20% of the way through and I'm thinking these people really are named "Whiskeyjack", "Hairlock", "Sorry", "Nightchill", "Dancer", and "Surly". (Sorry, Dancer, and Surly? Sounds like they could fit right in with Bashful, Doc, Dopey, Grumpy, Happy, Sleepy, and Sneezy.)

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...there's nothing wrong with "it's just not working for me"... regardless of how many people might sing a book's/series' praises.
Very true, and I've abandoned plenty of books I didn't enjoy in the past...

Quote:
On the other hand; I'd also say it would be worth trying it again at some point down the road. There's a lot to when a book's read in a person's life. Many's the time I've found myself thoroughly enjoying a book that I previously had to put down for lack of interest.
Good advice. I believe I picked up and abandoned The Hobbit half a dozen times over the years before finishing (and enjoying) it, even though I had no difficulty with The Lord of the Rings.
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Old 06-16-2012, 01:56 PM   #10
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Oh! Well, that makes sense. However, this fact could have been mentioned earlier in the novel... 20% of the way through and I'm thinking these people really are named "Whiskeyjack", "Hairlock", "Sorry", "Nightchill", "Dancer", and "Surly". (Sorry, Dancer, and Surly? Sounds like they could fit right in with Bashful, Doc, Dopey, Grumpy, Happy, Sleepy, and Sneezy.)
Amusingly, it is only clearly stated on the fourth book, if I remember correctly.
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Old 06-17-2012, 01:20 AM   #11
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There are a few things like that, where you find out what is going on a few books later.
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Old 06-17-2012, 06:25 PM   #12
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Oh! Well, that makes sense. However, this fact could have been mentioned earlier in the novel... 20% of the way through and I'm thinking these people really are named "Whiskeyjack", "Hairlock", "Sorry", "Nightchill", "Dancer", and "Surly". (Sorry, Dancer, and Surly? Sounds like they could fit right in with Bashful, Doc, Dopey, Grumpy, Happy, Sleepy, and Sneezy.)
The thing about names are subtly mentioned in the first book.

I also had to struggle with Gardens of the Moon. A friend of mine is a huge fan of this series and heartly recommended it to me.
After three attempts I finished this book. (First: printed English, second: printed German, third: ebook English).

The names weren't the problem, it is more the lack of information.
Let me put it this way:

If you are looking for a hardcore fantasy series with an unique world, full of badass characters, with a complex timeline and you also don't mind to be thrown into the world without an introduction from the author, than I am pretty sure, that this is a perfect series for you.
However, you have to be some kind of hardcore reader... and I am just not that kind of reader.

I fully understand your situation, AndrewH, it is not an easy beginning.
In the future I will probably try to read the second book, I hope it will get better.
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Old 06-17-2012, 07:39 PM   #13
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To answer this, I'm going to post my Amazon/Goodreads review of Gardens of the Moon, as I tried to articulate what it is about the Malazan Book of the Fallen series that I found to be so compelling and powerful:

Gardens of the Moon is the first book in a ten book series called The Malazan Book of the Fallen. The series is arguably the most epic in scope, the most complex in narrative style, and the most detailed in terms of cultural, sociological and religious aspects. Comparisons to other great fantasy epics will no doubt include The Lord of the Rings or A Song of Ice and Fire or even The Wheel of Time…but a better and more accurate comparison may be to Frank Herbert's magnificent sci-fi masterpiece, the Dune chronicles, and Glen Cook's gritty and character-centric fantasy series The Black Company (where he must have picked up the use of descriptive and decidedly off color] nicknames for the military personnel).

Gardens of the Moon starts off much like Dune and the Black Company, in that you are literally thrown into the middle of this fully realized world, replete with an ancient but still living prehistory (in the form of the T'lan Imass and the Jaghut), a powerful but aloof alien species (in the form of the Tiste Andii), and a host of elder gods who are anything but passive and who routinely interfere and direct the lives of the general populace.

I remember when i was a teenager and I had heard of a movie called Dune which was apparently based upon a best-selling novel. The premise intrigued me to the point where I read the book and then immediately saw the movie by David Lynch. I did not see the movie alone. I took my cousin with me. My female cousin who knew nothing of sci-fi or fantasy and who probably was looking for a movie like Gremlins or Ghostbusters, rather than a strange sci-fantasy like Dune. And the movie was incredibly strange. If i had not read the book…i don't think even I would have been able to pick up on all of the subtle nuances and grand scope of things without having read the book first. I can't imagine what it must have been like for my poor cousin, who was so confused and befuddled afterwards that all she could do was ask "What is the 'water of life'? and why did he keep saying 'the sleeper has awakened'?"

I recount this story only to illustrate a potential problem point: readers who are looking for the standard/typical mode of fantasy storytelling which have become so predictable that many times we're not looking for diversity in narrative, but rather looking at what type of new "power" is being contested or won. No, Gardens of the Moon will be as baffling and mysterious and potentially frustrating for many readers who are looking for something straightforward and simple to explain. Such is not the case with this series. Steven Erikson has created a complex and living breathing world and populated with various races and cultures and countries and thrown them into this story.

And what is the story? It's hard to say really. There are so many narrative plot points. But I think the fundamental story is something happened thousands of years before, something so terrible and cataclysmic that the repercussions of the action and decision have reverberated throughout history, affecting the elder races and have now culminated into a series of devastating and world-ending consequences that the modern races and their current use of magic must now contend with the here and now.

I having been reading this series for the past few years now, and am on the last few novels. These books are not easy to read, but they yield so much pleasure in terms of epic storytelling and the range of characters.

I will point out two things that you may need to know about the entire series:
  1. First, Steven Erikson believes that all characters, big and small, matter. You might agree with that viewpoint, but if you think about what that really means, it means that each and every little character gets their share of the page, meaning what would normally be a 400 page book could turn into a 1,000 page book because the lives and dreams of each and every character is detailed and told. hence the massive length of most of Erikson's books.
  2. Second, Steven Erikson's prose style is almost as complex and flowery as his story and settings. This prose is as purple as purple can get.

But with that said, these books are marvelous. And if you can get through the first book, as dense and complex as it is, then you will be rewarded by the 2nd and 3rd books, Deadhouse Gates and Memories of Ice, which are about as good as anything i've ever read. The book Deadhouse Gates will break your heart with its grueling story about Coltaine's Chain of Dogs. And Memories of Ice will astound you in its scope and power; it is perhaps Erikson's one Masterpiece, though some may argue that the entire series is what constitutes his masterwork. but if one were to give the word masterpiece to any one of his novels, it would probably have to be Memories of Ice.

But in order to get there, you have to go through Gardens of the Moon, which is not his best work, but the beginning of his greatest work.
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Old 06-17-2012, 08:25 PM   #14
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Nicely put and spookily identical to my own feelings on the subject. I have no problem stating that Deadhouse Gates and Memories of Ice are undoubtedly among the very finest fantasy books I have ever read and likely ever will.
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Old 06-17-2012, 10:46 PM   #15
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I dropped the book at around the same point you did.

Some friends did like the series though, and it is finally complete/ended.
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