Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > News

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-09-2013, 05:34 PM   #136
Andrew H.
Grand Master of Flowers
Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,201
Karma: 8389072
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Naptown
Device: Kindle PW, Kindle 3 (aka Keyboard), iPhone, iPad 3 (not for reading)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ntsimp View Post
When you buy something, it is yours. You have the right to sell, lend, or give it. You don't need permission from a previous owner.
It depends on what you buy and what the conditions are that attach to the sale. Buying a co-op doesn't give you the right to sell it to someone not approved by the board. If you buy a 30 day bus pass in many areas, you're not allowed to sell, give, or lend it (or at least the people you lend it to can't use it as a bus pass). Buying insurance doesn't mean that you can sell the policy to someone else. And of course buying e-books or software or movies subject to a license means that you are (or may be) limited by the license. You are still *buying* an e-book; you just don't have identical ownership rights to someone who buys a pbook.
Andrew H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 06:16 PM   #137
Ntsimp
Zealot
Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 149
Karma: 1215642
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Utah
Device: iriver Story HD, Android
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew H. View Post
Buying e-books or software or movies subject to a license means that you are (or may be) limited by the license.
But buying pbooks, CD-ROMs, or DVDs imposes no such limitations--because you have actually purchased a physical object. The only obstacle here is copyright law, because you can't distribute the digital file you "bought" without making a new copy. Current legal interpretations treat those new copies as governed by copyright law and thus subject to the will of the copyright holder. So we have these fabulous new technologies with wonderful possibilities, but we're insisting on artificially making them inferior to the old fashioned technologies they're replacing. Surely we can do better than this.
Ntsimp is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 09-09-2013, 11:57 PM   #138
faithbw
Guru
faithbw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.faithbw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.faithbw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.faithbw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.faithbw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.faithbw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.faithbw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.faithbw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.faithbw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.faithbw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.faithbw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
faithbw's Avatar
 
Posts: 618
Karma: 1526148
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: A place where the sun always shines
Device: Kindle Oasis, iPad Mini 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompe View Post
I thought libraries mostly bought hardback and that publisher have one hardback edition for libraries and a trade edition for ordinary customers. Also I thought that the price did not decide the number of copies. I thought library reviews was the deciding factor.
Not necessarily. Libraries often buy trade paperbacks especially in genres like romance, sci fi, fantasy, mystery, etc. Many books aren't even published in hardback. Also, libraries often buy books from wholesalers at the same rate as bookstores.

http://lj.libraryjournal.com/blogs/a...r-price-hikes/

As for price, it can be a factor in which books to buy and how many copies. It isn't the only factor but it is one nonetheless.
faithbw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 06:39 AM   #139
Sregener
Addict
Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Sregener's Avatar
 
Posts: 239
Karma: 1664052
Join Date: Mar 2011
Device: Kindle 4NT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ntsimp View Post
When you buy something, it is yours. You have the right to sell, lend, or give it. You don't need permission from a previous owner.
This is where things get tricky. When you buy an artistic work that is covered under copyright, your rights to use that work are limited. In other words, while you own the physical media, you don't own the content contained on that physical media and your rights to distribute, copy or otherwise change that content are restricted. Since copying has always been considered a no-no with copyright laws, and no one can deny that you cannot transfer your eBook file to a friend without copying the bits (short of handing them your ereader tied to your account), you can't create a new copy of the eBook for your friends, even if you destroy yours when you do it.

Libraries are, in essence, buying a license to copy an eBook in a limited manner, and it is being treated as such. We, the consumers, may not like that fact, and we may, as patrons, argue that the price is too high and unfair and cry about it all day. But as publishing becomes digital, there is this transition period in which old ways of thinking have not yet replaced new ones and there are "mistakes" being made.
Sregener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 09:38 AM   #140
BWinmill
Nameless Being
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sregener View Post
When you buy an artistic work that is covered under copyright, your rights to use that work are limited. In other words, while you own the physical media, you don't own the content contained on that physical media and your rights to distribute, copy or otherwise change that content are restricted.
As covered by copyright law, that is mostly a good thing. It balances the right of the creator and the consumer. For example: the creator has exclusive rights to duplication and public performance. The consumer has the right to resell, lend out, throw away, destroy, or hoard the copy that they own. No need for licensing.

Quote:
Since copying has always been considered a no-no with copyright laws, and no one can deny that you cannot transfer your eBook file to a friend without copying the bits (short of handing them your ereader tied to your account), you can't create a new copy of the eBook for your friends, even if you destroy yours when you do it.
I agree that the inherent ability of computers to copy data, even during normal operations when a third-party (human) is not involved is inconsistent with copyright law.

Quote:
But as publishing becomes digital, there is this transition period in which old ways of thinking have not yet replaced new ones and there are "mistakes" being made.
This is where I have great concerns. I can easily envision a scenario where consumers have few, if any, property rights in the digital realm. If this becomes entrenched as a social norm, it may become a reality for physical goods as well. (For example: I've already seen license agreements for physical goods that include a microcontroller and firmware.)

The question is: how do we rebalance those rights?
  Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 09-10-2013, 10:57 AM   #141
HomeInMyShoes
Grand Sorcerer
HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 19,226
Karma: 67780237
Join Date: Jul 2011
Device: none
I don't believe the rebalancing of the rights is that difficult or that we need to change that much.

if I buy a work of at from an artist and take a million photographs of it and put them up around my house, am I harming the artist? If I slap a museum sign in front of my house and charge admission I might be harming the artist, but then again, the artist was not going to make money off the original picture anymore having sold it to a private individual. Now if I made some copies and sold them that is probably a violation.

Copyright needs to look at the artist's and the buyer's rights. It's not rocket science, but we continually pander to corporations. It's the capitalistic way.
HomeInMyShoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 11:18 AM   #142
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 35,872
Karma: 118716293
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes View Post
I don't believe the rebalancing of the rights is that difficult or that we need to change that much.

if I buy a work of at from an artist and take a million photographs of it and put them up around my house, am I harming the artist? If I slap a museum sign in front of my house and charge admission I might be harming the artist, but then again, the artist was not going to make money off the original picture anymore having sold it to a private individual. Now if I made some copies and sold them that is probably a violation.

Copyright needs to look at the artist's and the buyer's rights. It's not rocket science, but we continually pander to corporations. It's the capitalistic way.
This.
kennyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 11:58 AM   #143
hwlester
Wizard
hwlester ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hwlester ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hwlester ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hwlester ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hwlester ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hwlester ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hwlester ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hwlester ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hwlester ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hwlester ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hwlester ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
hwlester's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,343
Karma: 2786741
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Birmingham, AL
Device: Sony Reader PRS-T1, Kindle Touch, misc. Android devices, Nook HD+
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sregener View Post
But as publishing becomes digital, there is this transition period in which old ways of thinking have not yet replaced new ones and there are "mistakes" being made.
Agreed. Which is exactly what efforts like the one in the original post are attempting to change. By making people aware of the inequities and attempting to introduce a new way of thinking.
hwlester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2013, 11:24 AM   #144
dalai
Enthusiast
dalai began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 25
Karma: 10
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Germany
Device: Kindle DX, Sony PRS T2
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWinmill View Post
I agree that the inherent ability of computers to copy data, even during normal operations when a third-party (human) is not involved is inconsistent with copyright law.
Maybe if we take each word in the copyright law literally and even then I am not so sure. In most situations you are allowed to make personal copies, e.g. as a backup*. The copies created by a computer can fall into that category.

As far as I know, copyright law more or less says that you have the right to lend, gift or sell a copyrighted work after you have bought it, but you cannot do that with copies of that work. It seems to me that a license term that limits your rights should be unenforcable. At least in Europe, there have been some cases where courts have determined that reselling a software license is legal, perhaps ebooks are to follow.

* I checked about this online and was surprised to find that, in the US at least, it appears you are not allowed to make backup copies of music or films you have legally downloaded: http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-digital.html
dalai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 06:59 AM   #145
Sregener
Addict
Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Sregener's Avatar
 
Posts: 239
Karma: 1664052
Join Date: Mar 2011
Device: Kindle 4NT
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes View Post
Copyright needs to look at the artist's and the buyer's rights. It's not rocket science, but we continually pander to corporations. It's the capitalistic way.
In a free economy, exchanges only take place when both sides believe they are better off (otherwise, why go to the bother of making the exchange in the first place?) We all, in general, benefit greatly by the existence and actions of corporations.

However, the US is not a purely free economy, and the government frequently interferes with the market, which leads to the "pandering" you mention. But this has far more in common with socialist theory than capitalist. (I know, some of you will object to the word socialist. It means, in essence, that either through direct or indirect means, government controls a business. Look no further than the miles of health care regulations prior to Obamacare and ask yourself just how much autonomy the health care corporations had. The consequence of such control is that corporations spend more time and effort begging for special favors from government rather than in actually producing what consumers want. This kind of rent seeking is most certainly anti-capitalist.)

When it comes to copyright law, some have stated that it should be abolished. I don't happen to agree. I see the negatives of copyright law, but I also see the positives, and I can't say that current enforcement is all about protecting the producers. It is a system whereby we, the readers, get to choose which authors produce more works, while the authors can be certain that if they do produce good works, they will make enough money to eat from that rather than needing to work another job to support their writing habit.

When I see most authors driving Ferraris, living in posh mansions, and having generally too much money to know what to do with, I'll agree that the balance is off. Right now, I don't see many fat cats in the publishing industry. Neither do I see the general public unable to access information because it is too costly. So I do not the see the current system as grossly imbalanced.
Sregener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 07:17 AM   #146
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 35,872
Karma: 118716293
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sregener View Post
.... We all, in general, benefit greatly by the existence and actions of corporations.
...
I disagree violently. If you'd like to go out back and punch it out, I'm game.

Large companies are one thing, corporations are a completely different thing.
kennyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 08:29 AM   #147
SleepyBob
Evangelist
SleepyBob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SleepyBob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SleepyBob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SleepyBob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SleepyBob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SleepyBob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SleepyBob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SleepyBob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SleepyBob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SleepyBob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SleepyBob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 420
Karma: 8522810
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Device: Kindle PW3
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
I disagree violently. If you'd like to go out back and punch it out, I'm game.

Large companies are one thing, corporations are a completely different thing.
??
Aren't the vast majority of large companies organized as corporations?
SleepyBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 08:52 AM   #148
Sregener
Addict
Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Sregener's Avatar
 
Posts: 239
Karma: 1664052
Join Date: Mar 2011
Device: Kindle 4NT
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
Large companies are one thing, corporations are a completely different thing.
You'll have to explain the difference, since I can't name a single large company that is unincorporated.
Sregener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 08:54 AM   #149
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 35,872
Karma: 118716293
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
That's not the point. Please review my response to your post.

Perhaps watch this for enlightenment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMNZXV7jOG0
kennyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 11:33 AM   #150
Sregener
Addict
Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Sregener's Avatar
 
Posts: 239
Karma: 1664052
Join Date: Mar 2011
Device: Kindle 4NT
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
That's not the point. Please review my response to your post.

Perhaps watch this for enlightenment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMNZXV7jOG0
You gave me two sentences to work with. In the first, you stated you disagreed with my claim that we benefit by the existence and actions of corporations without providing any arguments or food for thought. In the second sentence, you claimed that large companies are substantively different from corporations. Again without any supporting arguments.

After I question one of your two sentences, you say, "That's not the point." As though one of your two sentences was to be ignored. And as support for the other, you provide a link to a 2+ hour documentary. But two can play at that game, and I can provide counter-links that could consume vast amounts of your time for you to investigate. Not only in considering the link, but then searching out and examining other sources to provide support or arguments against the original link. That is, if you wanted to be thorough rather than having your ideas spoon-fed into your brain.

Fundamentally, though, I'd point out that no matter what device you are using to access this forum, it was manufactured by a corporation. And the data did not arrive at your doorstep without going through routers and servers created by corporations, and the odds are extremely likely that the provider you pay for receiving your data bits also is a corporation. Your breakfast products were almost certainly produced by a corporation, and sold to you at a business that is also incorporated. Your mode of transport was made by a corporation, unless you walk everywhere, in which case it is likely your footwear was. Even your very argument that I need to educate myself using a link requiring me to go to YouTube, a site owned by a corporate entity known as Google. Thus, I think I can state pretty authoritatively that you benefit on a daily basis from the existence of corporations.

We can hypothesize a world where corporations did not exist and only companies were permitted, and speculate as to what inventions or products such a system might create, but all such arguments would be based on theory and not practice since we cannot examine a large-scale inventive economy that does not have the legal idea of a corporation undergirding it.
Sregener is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Publishers Restricting Libraries: RIP Sony Readers? randyflycaster Sony Reader 44 03-16-2011 07:28 PM
How to Destroy The Book - Cory Doctorow Elfwreck News 44 12-19-2009 12:07 AM
New Cory Doctorow non-fiction book garygibsonsf Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) 22 10-21-2008 09:44 PM
Cory Doctorow book search HappyMartin Reading Recommendations 7 08-06-2008 09:25 AM
New CC E-book from Cory Doctorow plantedbypiggies Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) 7 05-08-2008 01:12 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:35 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.