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View Poll Results: Would you circumvent geographical restrictions SOLELY to save money? | |||
Yes | 131 | 67.18% | |
No | 53 | 27.18% | |
Other (explain in thread, please) | 11 | 5.64% | |
Voters: 195. You may not vote on this poll |
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09-11-2013, 04:32 AM | #106 |
Wizard
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Well VPNs are only one way. Some people apparently just change their settings and use a country-relevant credit card.
But look, I'm not saying that it's likely that anyone will go after the end customers. I'm just saying that copyright is relevant when the whole business is predicated on copyright law. |
09-11-2013, 05:46 AM | #107 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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Quote:
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09-11-2013, 05:48 AM | #108 |
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The store does not have a license to sell a copy of the book in the same way as a torrent uploader does not have a license to distribute a copy of the book to you. You as a customer or downloader know that in both cases. I can really not see any significant difference here.
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09-11-2013, 05:50 AM | #109 |
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Why do you believe that is a non-copyright infringement sale? It might be a sale nobody will complain about but that is a different thing.
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09-11-2013, 08:21 AM | #110 | |
Wizard
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Quote:
Often there is no contract or agreement. The same vender sells books at different prices in different countries. Both ebooks and paper books. Sometimes the parent company sets up different subsidiaries to do this sometimes not. Canadian companies shipping to the US often charge US purchasers less, even the little ones. And American companies often charge higher prices to Canadian retailers. The agreements in question are similar to those that companies have with salesmen who sell door to door. You have a territory that is assigned. You cannot go outside that territory and knock on doors. But if someone comes to you and wants some Avon products, for example, maybe because they work with your brother-in-law you are allowed to sell to them. As long as the vender does not knowingly sell outside their territory they are not doing anything illegal or immoral either. The contract may specify what lengths the vender has to go to to find out where you live, and they were more stringent at one time. Now an IP check is all that is require in most cases. If the IP checks out then the vender is considered blameless under the law. Personally I think the requirements were relaxed because the publisher would rather sell at a higher price when they can, but are willing to sell lower rather than lose the sale. Claiming it is piracy is like saying if I walk across the border to buy something at a lower price I am taking it without paying for it. Claiming it is copyright infringement seems a tad unknowledgeable. The vender has agreed vender with other venders to not knowingly sell outside their territory. Nothing to do with making copies or paying royalties or contracts with the author. The agreement is between venders, not between the copyright holder and the publisher (who may be one and the same). Sometimes the different venders are actually the same company. Copyright infringement only comes into play if you are distributing the book without the rights holder’s permission. Helen |
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09-11-2013, 08:40 AM | #111 | |
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Just because somebody wants to sell something to you does not mean it is legal or moral for you to buy it. |
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09-11-2013, 08:42 AM | #112 |
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No it is not because the point of sale in that case is in a place were they are allowed to sell the things. When you buy an ebook the point of sale is were you live.
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09-11-2013, 09:02 AM | #113 | |
Wizard
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I am too lazy to bother to do this because I can get good prices where I live, but I would have no problem with those that are greatly overcharged just because of where they live doing it, but perhaps you think electrons are more expensive in other countries and this justifies the higher prices. Helen |
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09-11-2013, 09:18 AM | #114 | |
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The way you were arguing you must have been fully in agreement with Amazon removing copies of 1984 from people's Kindles? Last edited by HansTWN; 09-11-2013 at 09:28 AM. |
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09-11-2013, 09:30 AM | #115 | |
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For me, georestrictions are trying to apply a material age provision to digital services. For some things that might work, evidently not here. For most material sales, it is actually not relevant where the buyer lives, only where the sale takes place. And, by the nature of a material sale, it is also very clear where the sale takes place: there where the goods are handed over to the buyer or start the transfer to the buyer. With regards to digital sales, the definitions are quite a bit harder to define, since no material transfer of good takes place. Even the location where the bytes start the transfer might be hard to figure out -- often servers are not located in the country where the seller is located. From my point of view, a sale takes place there where the financial transaction takes place. If I buy something in a German web-shop, and pay with me credit-card, I consider the transaction has taken place in Germany, regardless where I am located. Especially, since as a customer I don't know any better then the servers are located in Germany, and hence transfer of the information starts there. |
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09-11-2013, 09:36 AM | #116 |
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Yes, the contracts between the Publisher and the Retailer contain a minimum diligence check that the Retailer must perform. If the Retailer meets the standard set in the Publisher/Retailer Contract, then the Retailer does have the legal right to sell the eBook (license because for the most part Retailers don't sell ebooks, they sell a license to an ebook). That is true even if the Customer is fibbing in a manner that can't be verified by the due diligence check.
There is also a Contract between the Retailer and the Customer that is spelled out in the Terms of Service agreement. Falsifying an address might violate these, and make the account subject to shutdown and the license to an eBook revoked. It's not something I'm too worried about. |
09-11-2013, 11:40 AM | #117 |
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09-11-2013, 11:43 AM | #118 |
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09-11-2013, 02:07 PM | #119 |
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09-11-2013, 10:18 PM | #120 |
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Which the seller does, in this case. They have used pre-approved checking methods to confirm that you are eligible to buy.
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