09-18-2013, 05:27 PM | #46 | ||
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Again: just my $.02. Hitch |
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09-18-2013, 06:16 PM | #47 |
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I wonder how people created good EPUBs before Sigil... Just converting a Word document or exporting one through Writer mostly doesn't do it too well without extra cleaning.
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09-18-2013, 06:37 PM | #48 | |
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n.b.: I also do a lot of fast pre-cleaning in Word, which then produces very clean code. Word produces ugly code when people use it poorly; once cleaned and with Styles used, you can take Word's output, remove the internal SS, and roll and go in HTML. If you export ad hoc-typed Word to HTML, then, yes, the clean-up is dreadful. But that's not Word's fault--that's the user's fault. Hitch |
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09-19-2013, 04:24 AM | #49 |
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We have had these discussions also on these forums. They even said, 'it will only be a small change and easily done'. When I argumented that it might be a big change, they basically said I was crazy, because they know it better. Some of these 'requests' were really a lot of work with very little gain.
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09-19-2013, 04:30 AM | #50 |
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I do not know C++, otherwise I might have been able to help out. I have the coding experience, but not the language and from what I understood the language can be cumbersome.
I am afraid that I have to second Hitch in this. The changes that additional coders will be found is slim in the next few months. User_none was indeed already a very big surprise and he made Sigil from a nice tool to a great tool. If it was not for Sigil, I would still be coding ePUBs manually... |
09-19-2013, 08:37 AM | #51 | |
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There are a few things I want to clear up.
1) Quote:
Code:
git remote set-url origin <NEWURL> 2) Monetary compensation isn't what I'm looking for. I have a full time job which I like more than Sigil. I don't want to make Sigil into a full time project and I don't want to deal with supporting a paid product (I get to do that already at work because we offer direct to developer support). The issue isn't money it's time constraints between Sigil and other things I'd like to do. 3) Commercialization of Sigil. This is allowed by the GPLv3 license Sigil's code is released under. That said the GPL makes turning a project into a paid product very difficult. You can sell a package but the GPL requires you provide the source, and build files so anyone you sell the product to can build it themselves. It also says that you can't prevent someone from doing the same thing you're doing. So selling binaries won't work. All that needs to happen is one person pays then they are allowed to re-distribute the binary as well as all source and build instructions to anyone. This is precisely what Red Hat deals with in regard to CentOS. What Red Hat and other companies do is provide paid support. They also provide fee based development services. They also have bundling deals with hardware manufactures. That's how a commercial GPL project typically make money. Other open source licenses have different constraint and can be managed in a different manner in regard to commercialization. The biggest headache really is support and I'd rather not get more involved in that. Especially as noted people are entitled enough when it comes to something they were given for free, once they've paid that entitlement sky rockets. 4) The choice of the C++ language has been a hinderance to Sigil. It's a complex language and few people know it well enough that they're comfortable contributing. Pretty much every person whose contributed has said something like: "I know language X but C++ is confusing, is this patch correct?" When I took over Sigil from Valloric he basically told me that if he knew what he knows now about how C++ would impact Sigil he would have used a different language for the project. I'd think with Microsoft pushing C++ as their "system" language and embracing C++11 more people would be comfortable with it. But as it turns out C++ really is preventing contributors. |
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09-19-2013, 03:36 PM | #52 | |||
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Hitch |
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09-19-2013, 04:00 PM | #53 | ||
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C and C++ are not that difficult. I can learn a programming language within a few days, but then it's still not possible to write meaningful programs. The problem is not C++, or whatever language: the problem is (IMHO) the bazillion number of libraries. I know C, C++, C#, PHP, and other languages too, but it's impossible to just jump into a project because most of the time, I don't know the libraries that are used well enough. Doesn't Sigil use BOOST, QT, and some other libraries? I know BOOST (the few parts I've used of it), but I know nothing about QT, or any other library Sigil uses. The language is not difficult, but if someone expects you to sit down and start writing code for some huge project: good luck. There are like 20.000 frameworks and libraries out there, and they're all different, and work in a different way. It costs time to get up to speed with the ones used, and after you know them enough to start coding, the knowledge becomes almost useless as soon as you need to work on a project that uses different frameworks and libraries. I don't know if using a language other than C++ would have solved that problem. Last edited by Katsunami; 09-19-2013 at 04:04 PM. |
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09-19-2013, 04:06 PM | #54 | |
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WRT Tech support expectations: I have fairly VAST experience with this, and 90+% of it is, "teach me how to use this feature" or "I can't be bothered to read the instructions." Just today I was castigated by a woman who had her book scanned and OCR'ed, even though I warned her, because I didn't teach her how to use Word beforehand, so that she could find and fix broken paragraphs. And I mean, CASTIGATED, as if this were part of my job. Nothing could induce me to offer support for Sigil. Seriously. Look at all the entitled a**holes we get on here complaining, that we see now, when it's FREE???? Hitch |
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09-19-2013, 04:51 PM | #55 | |
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09-19-2013, 05:21 PM | #56 |
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09-19-2013, 05:31 PM | #57 |
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That is exactly the problem, and many companies (even IT ones) don't seem to understand. When looking for jobs, it often went similar to this:
"So, you have C++ / PHP / C#... experience?" - "Yes, but I've been mainly writing code for micro-controllers, in pure C for the last 2 years. I haven't touched PHP or any of the frameworks for at least that long." "OK, we'd like you to do a little test, in PHP." *point* "There's a computer, and an assignment describing a function we would like you to implement in our <insert huge on-line administrative package here>, within 2 hours." Dude. That's not going to work, and YOU FRACKING KNOW IT. No wonder all those IT companies can't find any engineers. Many of them expect you to sit down and write code, as if it is the same as boxing and wrapping toothbrushes in a factory. It's the same with those who'd like "An all-round IT-expert": you know, the people that know PHP, Python and Perl for their CMS, C++ for a few old desktop applications, C# for some newer applications, Bash scripting in Linux to manage our Linux servers, and oh... you must be able to also manage Windows servers and Oracle databases on the side. Believe me, I've seen those kinds of job offers. Often. You won't find someone who can do all that this at once at a professional level. Oh, and with regard to tech support: you're quite right. I've enough experience with it. I want *this* feature to be on any new computer, to be remotely controllable -> Last edited by Katsunami; 09-19-2013 at 05:41 PM. |
09-19-2013, 08:34 PM | #58 |
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Well, I am, or used to be, fluent in C as well as several other languages, but I was never able to grok C++ for more than a couple of hours at a time, on a good day. It wasn't the language itself, I'm ashamed to say, but the Object Oriented paradigm itself that I didn't find intuitive, what with its constructors, destructors, overburdened operators... I don't know what all.
IIRC there's a very famous C++ comment that goes something like this: Code:
// when I wrote this code, only God and I knew what I was doing. // now, only God knows. Yeah, you knew where that was heading right from the first line, yes? Kind of like bad Fortran or Basic spaghetti code. If you don't comment the hell out of it as you go along, three months later you'll never understand it. Even if you wrote it yourself. You needn't ask how I know this. ;-) So, yeah, the chance of finding one or more C++ coders who can dive into a million and a half lines of code and do anything useful in terms of major revisions (epub3, anyone?) anytime soon would be miraculous. And it's already happened once. Albert Last edited by st_albert; 09-19-2013 at 08:54 PM. Reason: afterthought |
09-19-2013, 08:46 PM | #59 |
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09-19-2013, 09:16 PM | #60 | |
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