GPL violation? - Page 6

FixB · 03-03-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delphidb96

And yet you're the one who's making the MOST noise about this - so why NOT you? (....)
Derek

Hum, I don't know about making such a noise, as the post you're quoting was my first one on this thread and on the subject ...
Anyway, my point was just to say that imho, IF (and that's where I'm really not qualified to tell white from black) Bookeen's device goes against GPL licenses, they should be responsible and not only the chinese manufacturer... That was all, sorry if my earlier (and unique) post seemed like making noise...

delphidb96 · 03-03-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I'm not 101% certain, but I'm sure I read somewhere, back in the initial days of the Gen3, that it does. Do you know of any way we could check up on that?

Sho 'nuf! Pop yours open and take a look at the SBC and other hardware tucked inside.

Of course, *I'M* not going to be the one who sacrifices *MY* Cybook on the Altar of Expediency!

Derek

delphidb96 · 03-03-2008, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FixB

Hum, I don't know about making such a noise, as the post you're quoting was my first one on this thread and on the subject ...
Anyway, my point was just to say that imho, IF (and that's where I'm really not qualified to tell white from black) Bookeen's device goes against GPL licenses, they should be responsible and not only the chinese manufacturer... That was all, sorry if my earlier (and unique) post seemed like making noise...

I may have read more into the post than you intended...

Anywho, no one has offered to crack open their personal Cybook in order to find out more, so this will have to wait until Bookeen let's us know.

Derek

tompe · 03-03-2008, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delphidb96

I may have read more into the post than you intended...

Anywho, no one has offered to crack open their personal Cybook in order to find out more, so this will have to wait until Bookeen let's us know.

I do not understand why you should do it. As has been pointed out it is Bookeen that has sold you the device and it is there responsibility. And they have said that they have to force there suplier to get it (and hopefully they do it). And the original manufacturer can say that they have not distributed the unit to you so why should they care about your questions?

delphidb96 · 03-05-2008, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

I do not understand why you should do it. As has been pointed out it is Bookeen that has sold you the device and it is there responsibility. And they have said that they have to force there suplier to get it (and hopefully they do it). And the original manufacturer can say that they have not distributed the unit to you so why should they care about your questions?

They should care because FSF says they should.

Yes, I heard back from FSF and they agree that Bookeen must detail what they know about the version of Linux the Cybook uses as well as list the GPL notification. But they stressed that the hardware manufacturer should give up the source code.

Derek

tompe · 03-05-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delphidb96

They should care because FSF says they should.

Yes, I heard back from FSF and they agree that Bookeen must detail what they know about the version of Linux the Cybook uses as well as list the GPL notification. But they stressed that the hardware manufacturer should give up the source code.

Derek

Could you quote that question and answer? What do you mean by should? From my perspective Bookeen is responsible for solving the problem. They cannot just tell me to ask the hardware manufacturer that will refuse.

Is it really against the GPL to sell a thing under condition that people sign a NDA for source code and then give the source code to them?

tompe · 03-05-2008, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

Is it really against the GPL to sell a thing under condition that people sign a NDA for source code and then give the source code to them?

Aha, to answer my own question:

Quote:

Does the GPL allow me to distribute copies under a nondisclosure agreement?

No. The GPL says that anyone who receives a copy from you has the right to redistribute copies, modified or not. You are not allowed to distribute the work on any more restrictive basis.

If someone asks you to sign an NDA for receiving GPL-covered software copyrighted by the FSF, please inform us immediately by writing to license-violation@fsf.org.

If the violation involves GPL-covered code that has some other copyright holder, please inform that copyright holder, just as you would for any other kind of violation of the GPL.

Well, so legally Bookeen does not have to respect the NDA they have signed.

DaleDe · 03-06-2008, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igorsk

By the way, one of the consequences of GPL is that you're allowed to redistribute the binaries. So any firmware update can be shared freely as it includes the Linux kernel.

I am not sure that is true. The binary also includes their proprietary reader so it is not just the Linux kernel. There is no requirement that they release their own stuff for free just because it uses Linux.

Dale

DaleDe · 03-06-2008, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delphidb96

Has anyone taken their purchased Cybook apart? If so, have they found information as to the manufacturer? Perhaps it is the same manufacturer who creates the Hanlin or the STAReBOOK and perhaps we can then go directly to the manufacturer and ASK them if they are willing to abide by GPL. I don't have a spare Cybook, or I'd do the dirty deed, sacrificing it on the altar of Information.

Derek

they are the same as STAReBook and NUUT as well as others, although their's is slightly customized with the square keypad.

Dale

delphidb96 · 03-07-2008, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

they are the same as STAReBook and NUUT as well as others, although their's is slightly customized with the square keypad.

Dale

Then the version of embedded Linux used should be the same, yes? Does anyone have the SDK for either? Or the source code? More important, has anyone gotten down to the OS level?

Derek

tompe · 03-07-2008, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

I am not sure that is true. The binary also includes their proprietary reader so it is not just the Linux kernel. There is no requirement that they release their own stuff for free just because it uses Linux.

I think igorsk is right in that you can redistribute the binaries without problem.

dottedmag · 03-07-2008, 10:54 AM

You may redistribute any GPL-licensed binaries, so everything proprietary needs to be stripped off before.

Jellby · 03-07-2008, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

I think igorsk is right in that you can redistribute the binaries without problem.

Provided you distribute also the source code if asked for.

DaleDe · 03-07-2008, 11:49 AM

Be sure that you know which version of GPL you are talking about. Current GPL is version 3 and Linux only specifies Version 2. It is not released under version 3 of the specification intentionally.

Dale

Bimble · 03-07-2008, 10:38 PM

The really important thing to consider for Bookeen from a pragmatic standpoint (not a legal or ethical one) is that their e-ink product is known best for its attention to open formats. The sort of person who does have strong feelings on free software and its licensing is exactly the kind of person Bookeen is supposed to be appealing to with the Cybook. So they really should have an interest in clearing up as much about the GPL issue as they can on their end.

Again setting aside legal nitty-gritty, the intent of the GPL is that software authors be able to release free software in a form that stays free. That's why groups like the FSF exist - not for the sake of the GPL specifically, but for the sake of authors who want to allow the public to use their code while still retaining some control over how it's used. Whether the license falls under contract or copyright law (and that actually varies according to jurisdiction, for how software licenses are handled), it still boils down to respecting the code authors' wishes in terms of use, modification, and redistribution of their code.

So here's hoping Bookeen does remedy the omissions in their documentation, and puts a proper amount of pressure on their hardware supplier to clarify its use of GPLed software and comply with the license. If not they'll just wind up alienating a small but passionate market segment for whom their product would otherwise be perfect.

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Bimble Junior Member Posts: 5 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2008 Device: Cybook Gen3	The really important thing to consider for Bookeen from a pragmatic standpoint (not a legal or ethical one) is that their e-ink product is known best for its attention to open formats. The sort of person who does have strong feelings on free software and its licensing is exactly the kind of person Bookeen is supposed to be appealing to with the Cybook. So they really should have an interest in clearing up as much about the GPL issue as they can on their end. Again setting aside legal nitty-gritty, the intent of the GPL is that software authors be able to release free software in a form that stays free. That's why groups like the FSF exist - not for the sake of the GPL specifically, but for the sake of authors who want to allow the public to use their code while still retaining some control over how it's used. Whether the license falls under contract or copyright law (and that actually varies according to jurisdiction, for how software licenses are handled), it still boils down to respecting the code authors' wishes in terms of use, modification, and redistribution of their code. So here's hoping Bookeen does remedy the omissions in their documentation, and puts a proper amount of pressure on their hardware supplier to clarify its use of GPLed software and comply with the license. If not they'll just wind up alienating a small but passionate market segment for whom their product would otherwise be perfect.

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