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Old 01-23-2014, 02:03 PM   #91
GreenMonkey
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Originally Posted by eschwartz View Post
The difference being that EPUB and AZW3 are just plain old html. html is not going to be obsolete, unlike proprietary not-fully-understood formats that have reached their expiry date re: support from the manufacturers.

Next thing you know, plaintext files will be acquiring digital obsolescence as well.
If it's just plaintext, then why can't I slap a .mobi onto my PC and just open it? It's got an icky layer of DRM around it, that's why. And I thought EPUB was mostly xhtml...

I know this is circumvent-able (at the moment) by us tech-saavy, but still. Not just an open standard, precisely.

Still, ebooks have plenty of variants - I ended up with a Topaz book once, and Kobo has their kepub variant (which I don't know a lot about, but fear of getting it has stopped me from buying books from them).

Something to think about also - since people continue to buy DRM, and mostly Amazon, nothing is stopping Amazon from tightening up the DRM down the road - so this easy convertibility/access could dry up.

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Old 01-23-2014, 02:47 PM   #92
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If it's just plaintext, then why can't I slap a .mobi onto my PC and just open it? It's got an icky layer of DRM around it, that's why. And I thought EPUB was mostly xhtml...

I know this is circumvent-able (at the moment) by us tech-saavy, but still. Not just an open standard, precisely.

Still, ebooks have plenty of variants - I ended up with a Topaz book once, and Kobo has their kepub variant (which I don't know a lot about, but fear of getting it has stopped me from buying books from them).

Something to think about also - since people continue to buy DRM, and mostly Amazon, nothing is stopping Amazon from tightening up the DRM down the road - so this easy convertibility/access could dry up.
DRM is very different from digital obsolescence. I was merely pointing out that you don't need to worry about EPUB and AZW3 becoming so outdated nothing can read it anymore.

I can of course use openssl or PGP to encrypt my plaintext files, just like Amazon or Adobe or Barnes & Noble or Kobo can use their encryption methods, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with the underlying format of either plaintext files or EPUB/AZW3, all three of which will be easily read.

(Since open-source projects can translate the AZW3 wrapper, support cannot be withdrawn, and there will always be a way to read it. EPUB is even easier, since it just requires an OS that comes with unzip, the most basic/universal compressed storage method out there.)

"And I thought EPUB was mostly xhtml..."



Well, XHTML unlike HTML doesn't like errors, but if you are going to quibble about that of all things....

Whatever. Fine. You're right. It uses the XML extension to HTML, by which it requires more exact definition of tags, plus a few other minor details, about which you will never care whatsoever. Other than that, they are practically identical.

I'll even change my original post, just for you. (The meaning, on the other hand, will not change remotely.)

Last edited by eschwartz; 01-23-2014 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:58 PM   #93
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Congrats!

The best thing about ebooks - no boxes!
All gone.

Man... Dat Space
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:21 PM   #94
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However, there are book stores. There's no other store like a bookstore. Heaven.
This is so very true. I would add, there is no other place like a bookstore. All those shelves... wonderful.

I like to have a bit of that in my home.
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:00 PM   #95
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This is so very true. I would add, there is no other place like a bookstore. All those shelves... wonderful.

I like to have a bit of that in my home.
I prefer a library over the bookstore... that is what I would like to replicate in my home.

If only Dngrswife would win the lottery...
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:02 PM   #96
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Old 01-25-2014, 11:11 AM   #97
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I agree about this, but then I didn't know anybody outside of my family who read scifi or fantasy. I share my ebooks with my Mom, sibs and cousins. I've joined two of those 'lending' groups, but nobody had any interest in what I had. It seems membership is dominated by those who want general fiction or paranormal, neither of which I'm big on.

What I mostly miss about paperbacks is to be able to quickly go back to reread something. It's a lot harder to find that spot in an ebook than with a paperback because of what I guess would be 'physical' memory.
You can always set a bookmark OR if that is too reader specific, keep a text file of quotes you want to search on.

I find it is just as easy to scan through an ebook searching for a quote as it is a paperbook. Probably easier as I can usually remember a snippit of text to search on.
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Old 01-25-2014, 11:16 AM   #98
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I worked in a book store when I was young, and obsessively collected books. Books I particularly liked, I purchased in hardcover. At on point, I stored about 2,000 books in the basement of my mother's house. When she sold her house, I was across the border in Canada, and could not afford to move the books to my new home (where I had easily another 2,000). I went down, intending to take them to a used bookstore, but the bookstore was closed. I left them on the street, cutting open the boxes to display the contents. It was a sunny Sunday afternoon. I did salvage a couple of boxes of my favorites. I, of course, have accumulated many, many more paper books, which fill large bookcases in my house. However, since the advent of ebooks, I've purchased perhaps 5 books. I have over 2,000 ebooks, which are backed up in several ways. I'm not going to lose my books again!

Perhaps the only thing I prefer about paper books is their physical presence on my bookshelves. I like to browse them and be reminded of what I've read, and see what I have yet to read. I've read hundreds of ebooks, and I've forgotten so many of them, whereas, paper books I notice and open when the spirit moves me. I much prefer reading on my Kindle, though.
For me Calibre becomes my "electronic bookshelf" I can put a column that is "read or to read" like a post-it note reminder and use a note column to make comments etc.

The advantage... I can back it up several places on usb drives and another comupter... to reduce the chance of loosing it.
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Old 01-25-2014, 11:27 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by GreenMonkey View Post
If it's just plaintext, then why can't I slap a .mobi onto my PC and just open it? It's got an icky layer of DRM around it, that's why. And I thought EPUB was mostly xhtml...

I know this is circumvent-able (at the moment) by us tech-saavy, but still. Not just an open standard, precisely.

Still, ebooks have plenty of variants - I ended up with a Topaz book once, and Kobo has their kepub variant (which I don't know a lot about, but fear of getting it has stopped me from buying books from them).

Something to think about also - since people continue to buy DRM, and mostly Amazon, nothing is stopping Amazon from tightening up the DRM down the road - so this easy convertibility/access could dry up.
The main problem with plain text is the lack of any formatting at all. No italics, bold, larger or smaller text.

The reason I like books based on html (and an epub can be opened up to see all the files inside are just html) is because in a worst case scenario I can always go back to the text.

Html has changed quite a bit since it's inception. A minor example, you now have to open a paragraph and close it.

The irritants to most html generated by programs such as word processors or pdf unpackers is that the html is "bad". Not following rules of opening paragraphs, closing them. things like <i>thi</i><i>s is an ex</i><i>ple sentence</i> making me crazy lol.
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Old 01-25-2014, 02:26 PM   #100
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I don't like that some devices don't handle italics well...
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Old 01-28-2014, 02:49 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Dngrsone View Post
I prefer a library over the bookstore... that is what I would like to replicate in my home.

If only Dngrswife would win the lottery...
I agree with you in principle, however, the library i usually go to, is starting to have more computers and internet access points than bookshelves. And of those bookshelves, many are filled with DVD's and CD's. So at this moment, my neighborhood bookstore has more bookshelves and more interesting books than the public library (at least on display)... so curiosly, it is the bookstore in my case that replicates more faithfully that ideal i have of a perfect place
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Old 02-03-2014, 10:41 AM   #102
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I often dream about the potential of ebooks/ereaders, but then I'm yanked back to this crummy reality where everything is merely usable. There's so many things that need to be sorted (standards, drm, price, etc), and ereaders need to come a long way (ppi, contrast, performance, etc) before they can compete with paper books...
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Old 02-03-2014, 01:18 PM   #103
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I often dream about the potential of ebooks/ereaders, but then I'm yanked back to this crummy reality where everything is merely usable. There's so many things that need to be sorted (standards, drm, price, etc), and ereaders need to come a long way (ppi, contrast, performance, etc) before they can compete with paper books...
Ereader vs. paper book: I can read the print, no gutter.

They compete already. They don't surpass paper books in every way, and may never do so, but they have clear advantages, and which a person prefers depends on how they weight the advantages of each.
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Old 02-03-2014, 03:28 PM   #104
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My pbooks and ebooks co-exist quite happily in my home Several years ago (and before I got an ereader) I did a massive cull on the pbooks which were absolutely everywhere and kept about 800 or thereabouts, everything else got sold/given away. I then allocated them a "limited" and defined space - so floor to ceiling bookcases in my corridor and that's it (there's room for about 1400 pbooks). I still buy some, mostly when what I want isn't available in ebook format, and I always get given pbooks for Xmas and birthday.

Like others though, if I ever come into large amounts of money, I'll get a bigger place just so that I can have a "proper" library

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Old 02-04-2014, 08:45 AM   #105
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True, but on the other hand, I have never ever had to "fix" paper books

There are some (small) advantages to paper books. It seems they're still more carefully put together than e-books.
Actually, I can remember the frustration of many paperbacks that had missing pages, duplicate pages, pages out of order lol.
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