DRM-protected e-books: Which format is right? - Page 3

Francesco · 09-30-2004, 04:33 PM

I agree that supporting lit is not be the best way to support "less closed" formats, although it's true that what I meant was crackeable formats, as well as any other DRM-free formats.
Something I can think of, is to buy the currently crackeable format. In that way, the books you buy will be available forever, in any format you choose.
But, what if the book you want is not available in a such format? Or, what if there are no currently crackeable formats?
In the end, it all comes down to your personal decision. What you need is information to balance all the factors involved: price, portability, reselling/lending feasibility, etc.
All formats have their tradeoffs and it's hard to say which one is the more reasonable.
In any case, I see everyone would agree that digital content protection still has a long way to go.

Look what I found through Morpheus post:
"A few topics can incite vigorous debate whenever people gather. Religion is one, politics is another, and then there is digital rights management (DRM)."

Maxneedle · 11-06-2006, 09:26 AM

Forget about all your problems with DRM protected music,just try Soundtaxi on www.soundtaxi.info ans you'll see,it's simple in use and really worth each cent

igorsk · 11-06-2006, 09:36 AM

It's a sort of off-topic here, but you shouldn't give that app too much credit.
Soundtaxi (and Tunebite and a ton of other apps) is just a glorified sound recorder, so you lose quality (which is often not that great already) due to reencoding. There are lossless solutions, which only decrypt but do not recompress your files:
1) FairUse4WM for WMA files.
2) QTFairUse6 for iTunes music.

Studio717 · 11-06-2006, 06:04 PM

I'm having this same quandry at the moment. I want to buy a Sony ereader, but I have a lot of older ebooks in Mobi format (not purchased from the Mobi site, but elsewhere). I'm assuming this means that I will not be able to read my Mobi-formatted books on the Sony ereader - true?

Since I started out reading ebooks on my various Palm devices, I picked Mobi as my format of choice for a while. It's a pain though since I'm on a Mac. Now I've gone to HTML format, where available, only because I'm hoping that it's more flexible in allowing me to format it for whatever reader I happen to have at the moment. It's the only way I can figure to have that flexibility, at least so far. I'm sure there are gotchas I just haven't discovered yet.

I can understand vendors not wanting people to sell ebooks second-hand, but I should be able to read a book on more than one device! That reminds me of the Middle Ages when books were chained to the library. You could read a book anywhere you wanted as long as it was within two feet of that bolt in the wall. Yeesh. How far we've come.

NatCh · 11-06-2006, 07:49 PM

Unfortunately, Studio717, your Mobi books won't presently work on the Reader ... unless/until somebody hacks a Mobi reading app onto the thing.

It's a constant refrain on these proprietary formats -- you can only use them where and for as long they're supported.

Unless you can figure out a way to convert them to another format, anyway.

Just one more example of why we need an industry accepted 'standard' format.

Maxneedle · 11-07-2006, 07:39 AM

Soundtaxi (and Tunebite and a ton of other apps) is just a glorified sound recorder, so you lose quality (which is often not that great already) due to reencoding. There are lossless solutions, which only decrypt but do not recompress your files:

yeah yeah..
it lose quality when you work with mp3,but it slightly)) and Soundtaxi just convert DRM protected music files and various audio files to unprotected)

nekokami · 11-07-2006, 01:08 PM

Since this old thread has been revived, I'd just like to note this remark:

Quote:

Originally Posted by macrotor

Now, if you made it cheap enough that it was equal to the cost of a used book, or at least equal to buying new minus selling back, then I think the price would be about right.

Exactly my position. If I'm crazy, it's nice to know I'm not the only one.

Studio717 · 11-07-2006, 03:33 PM

Thanks, NatCh. That's pretty much what I thought.

I'm not sure of the point of the closed formats. Is it just their profits when selling books on their sites? Or do they get percentages when other book sites sell ebooks in those formats?

This is one area where I think the adoption of ebooks is held back. There're just not that many folks willing to give up the advantages of a physical book, which, imo, have less to do with their affection for dead tree pulp, and more to do with their ability to read a book when and where they choose. (Or to get rid of it, but I'm iffy on that.)

Maybe the solution - pricey though it is - is to buy one of those small tablet pcs. (A concession, considering how much I prefer my macs!)

nekokami · 11-07-2006, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Studio717

Maybe the solution - pricey though it is - is to buy one of those small tablet pcs. (A concession, considering how much I prefer my macs!)

<Gasp> No! Don't give in to despair! (Or the Evil Empire!)

I'm in the same fix -- I'm also a Mac user, looking for a good reading solution. But even if I could scrape together the cash for a tablet pc, battery life and the screen would make it unsuitable as a reading device.

I'm waiting to see what iRex ends up saying about DRM. There was supposed to be an announcement in October, so hopefully by the end of the year we'll actually hear something. I had been hoping that the announcement would be a Mobi reader, but the leak about the Amazon Kindle took the stuffing out of that hope.

(Unless... and this is wild, completely unwarranted speculation... iRex is working on a deal to become the "Kindle" manufacturer for Amazon....

Nah. Too much to hope for.

)

NatCh · 11-07-2006, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Studio717

I'm not sure of the point of the closed formats. Is it just their profits when selling books on their sites? Or do they get percentages when other book sites sell ebooks in those formats?

Actually, it's more a symptom of the fact that there was no standard in the first place. Sure we had text file standards, but they weren't suited to books because the publishers wanted DRM -- an entirely different discussion, but the short version is they're scared of getting put out of business by piracy.

Because of that lack of a standard, everyone was not just free to do what they wanted, but they actually had no choice but to come up with something if they wanted to play. I'm sure they were each hoping that their proprietary format would become the standard and then they'd get to license everyone else as they liked.

The opposite has more or less happened in that instead of new players going with an existing format, they've gone and done their own. Hard to blame them, really. Why saddle yourself with a format that you don't control and can't be sure will still be around later, when you can (like everyone else is doing) just go with your own format that you do control? And if you can't be sure how long yours will be around, well, hey, you won't be around to care that it's gone anyway.

Finally (it appears that), there is starting to emerge a movement to develop a single standard that will be used across the industry. When that happens, and I think it will eventually (it's just a matter of how 'eventually'), I think that the existing providers of content and hardware makers that still in business are going to be pretty hard pressed to convert to that standard, if they want to stay in business, that is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekokami

(Unless... and this is wild, completely unwarranted speculation... iRex is working on a deal to become the "Kindle" manufacturer for Amazon....

)

Heh, don't they have enough to do manufacturing the iLiad?

... and would you really want them to anyway?

tcv · 11-07-2006, 04:06 PM

What about the UMPC?

NatCh · 11-07-2006, 04:20 PM

Aren't they about 2X the price of a Tablet right now?

And it's still a backlit screen. Unless you want that sort of thing, of course.

nekokami · 11-07-2006, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatCh

Heh, don't they have enough to do manufacturing the iLiad?

... and would you really want them to anyway?

I meant, the iLiad would BE the Kindle, rather than that ugly thing with the buttons. I don't know if I would want that, except that it would put the market power of Amazon behind the iLiad, which wouldn't be entirely a bad thing. But I think the iLiad is too high-end for most Amazon customers.

NatCh · 11-07-2006, 09:34 PM

Ah, now that would be nice.

09-30-2004, 04:33 PM	#31
Francesco Aficionado Posts: 391 Karma: 710 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Denver, CO, USA Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Touch	I agree that supporting lit is not be the best way to support "less closed" formats, although it's true that what I meant was crackeable formats, as well as any other DRM-free formats. Something I can think of, is to buy the currently crackeable format. In that way, the books you buy will be available forever, in any format you choose. But, what if the book you want is not available in a such format? Or, what if there are no currently crackeable formats? In the end, it all comes down to your personal decision. What you need is information to balance all the factors involved: price, portability, reselling/lending feasibility, etc. All formats have their tradeoffs and it's hard to say which one is the more reasonable. In any case, I see everyone would agree that digital content protection still has a long way to go. Look what I found through Morpheus post: "A few topics can incite vigorous debate whenever people gather. Religion is one, politics is another, and then there is digital rights management (DRM)." Last edited by Francesco; 09-30-2004 at 08:03 PM.

11-06-2006, 09:26 AM	#32
Maxneedle Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2006	forget Forget about all your problems with DRM protected music,just try Soundtaxi on www.soundtaxi.info ans you'll see,it's simple in use and really worth each cent

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11-06-2006, 09:36 AM	#33
igorsk Wizard Posts: 3,442 Karma: 300001 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium Device: PRS-500/505/700, Kindle, Cybook Gen3, Words Gear	It's a sort of off-topic here, but you shouldn't give that app too much credit. Soundtaxi (and Tunebite and a ton of other apps) is just a glorified sound recorder, so you lose quality (which is often not that great already) due to reencoding. There are lossless solutions, which only decrypt but do not recompress your files: 1) FairUse4WM for WMA files. 2) QTFairUse6 for iTunes music.

11-06-2006, 06:04 PM	#34
Studio717 Addict Posts: 208 Karma: 575 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: California Device: Various Kindles, iPhone, iPad, Galaxy 10.1	I'm having this same quandry at the moment. I want to buy a Sony ereader, but I have a lot of older ebooks in Mobi format (not purchased from the Mobi site, but elsewhere). I'm assuming this means that I will not be able to read my Mobi-formatted books on the Sony ereader - true? Since I started out reading ebooks on my various Palm devices, I picked Mobi as my format of choice for a while. It's a pain though since I'm on a Mac. Now I've gone to HTML format, where available, only because I'm hoping that it's more flexible in allowing me to format it for whatever reader I happen to have at the moment. It's the only way I can figure to have that flexibility, at least so far. I'm sure there are gotchas I just haven't discovered yet. I can understand vendors not wanting people to sell ebooks second-hand, but I should be able to read a book on more than one device! That reminds me of the Middle Ages when books were chained to the library. You could read a book anywhere you wanted as long as it was within two feet of that bolt in the wall. Yeesh. How far we've come.

11-06-2006, 07:49 PM	#35
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Unfortunately, Studio717, your Mobi books won't presently work on the Reader ... unless/until somebody hacks a Mobi reading app onto the thing. It's a constant refrain on these proprietary formats -- you can only use them where and for as long they're supported. Unless you can figure out a way to convert them to another format, anyway. Just one more example of why we need an industry accepted 'standard' format.

11-07-2006, 07:39 AM	#36
Maxneedle Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2006	Soundtaxi (and Tunebite and a ton of other apps) is just a glorified sound recorder, so you lose quality (which is often not that great already) due to reencoding. There are lossless solutions, which only decrypt but do not recompress your files: yeah yeah.. it lose quality when you work with mp3,but it slightly)) and Soundtaxi just convert DRM protected music files and various audio files to unprotected)

11-07-2006, 03:33 PM	#38
Studio717 Addict Posts: 208 Karma: 575 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: California Device: Various Kindles, iPhone, iPad, Galaxy 10.1	Thanks, NatCh. That's pretty much what I thought. I'm not sure of the point of the closed formats. Is it just their profits when selling books on their sites? Or do they get percentages when other book sites sell ebooks in those formats? This is one area where I think the adoption of ebooks is held back. There're just not that many folks willing to give up the advantages of a physical book, which, imo, have less to do with their affection for dead tree pulp, and more to do with their ability to read a book when and where they choose. (Or to get rid of it, but I'm iffy on that.) Maybe the solution - pricey though it is - is to buy one of those small tablet pcs. (A concession, considering how much I prefer my macs!)

11-07-2006, 04:06 PM	#41
tcv Addict Posts: 330 Karma: 596 Join Date: Oct 2006	What about the UMPC?

11-07-2006, 04:20 PM	#42
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Aren't they about 2X the price of a Tablet right now? And it's still a backlit screen. Unless you want that sort of thing, of course.

11-07-2006, 09:34 PM	#44
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Ah, now that would be nice.

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