PC Purchasing Decision Help...

[recycledelectron]

Start with the motherbaord. That's the key to expandability. A GA-PO35-DS3L will do everything you need. 7 slots, 8GB RAM, Socket 775, 1333FSB, 4 SATA, IDE, FDD, 10 USB, etc.

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

* Dual core processor and reasonable FSB speed

Take a serious look at the cache. I was used to a Pentium D (775) 915: 2.8GHz, 800Mhz FSB, 4MB Cache and then built a second (otherwise identical) system on a Core 2 Duo 2160: 1.8GHz, 800MHz FSB, 1MB Cache. The second system could not play a video without serious frame drops.

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

* 2 gig RAM, plus two empty sockets to add 2 gig later

RAM is critical! If you are really cheap, get 4GB ($65) to start and add 4GB later. Start with a 64 bit OS and save the cost of upgrading later.

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

* Adequate video driver which won't drag down the system

Any $30 PCI-E video card will work, unless you play games. Ideally, look for a card with independent multiple monitors.
I run a Matrox PCI (not-E) G450 MMS that was $100 off eBay. It rocks on x4 monitors.

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

* 500 gig HD (SATA?) - or a throwaway drive I replace myself

from http://www.Frys-Electronics-Ads.com, 750GB HDD $99

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

* TWO additional FOUR (now that I see it's possible as I start to look at Jon's suggestions!) open hard drive slots and available power/data cables. (I want to add 2x1TB 4x1TB more internal drives later)

The GA-P35-DS3L has 4 SATA ports, and an IDE channel. The x3 PCI and x3 PCI-E slots allow great expandability.

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

* DVD drive bay and cables - I already have a DVD drive from another system

If you do ever replace it, get a Samsung SATA drive for $29.99 ($34.99 w/ Light Scribe) from http://www.MicroCenter.com. They never wear out, and always burn correctly, unlike the Memored @#$% I used to deal with.

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

* A video card slot (to upgrade if needed in the future)

x1 PCI-E x16
If you move from the Intel P35 chipset to a P38 or X48 chipset, you move from PCI-E 1.1 to PCI-E 2.0, which doubles the clock rate with PCI-E 2.0 cards, but drops back for older cards. PCI-E 2.0 cards are not currently common nor are they cheap.

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

* Ethernet, 802.11g and 6-12 USB ports

Most Gigabyte S-series boards have 10+ USB ports, but most of those are USB 1.1, not USB 2.0, so be careful what you wire where.

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

* A decent power supply that I can leave on without worry about fire hazard or the fan failing

I went with a RaidMax xB case for $34.99 from Fry's Electronics. That includes 10 drive bays (x4 5.25" exposed, x2 3.5" exposed, and x4 3.5" internal) and a 380 watt (80 plus) power supply. There's plenty of cooling once you install 2 more 80mm case fans ($3.99 each)

Alternately, there's a junk computer store locally (http://www.DiscountSales.com) that has a 14 bay ATX case for $69.99 with a cheap power supply, but I can not imagine needing those extra drive bays.

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

* In addition, if there was a bundle price break to add a (black) 17" widescreen LCD with speakers, I could also save on the monitor cost.

LCDs are for idiots. They offer nothing other than sexy slimness over CRTs, and cost a fortune. Get x2 (with a cheap PCI-E card) or x4 (with a Matrox MMS card) 21" CRTs that run 2048x1536 for $15 each off http://www.CraigsList.com and start enjoying some screen space.

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

P.S. If a system has two optical drive bays, I know you can't put a HD on the same controller cable as the optical drive without a huge performance hit, but can you put three drives together on other same controller and use the empty optical bay only for physically holding the HD?

With the GA-P35-DS3L and RaidMax xB, you should have no problem.

In short, here's my recommendation:
$120 MB : GA-P35-DS3L (Fry's)
$100 HDD: 750GB (Fry's)
$100 Video: Matrox G450 MMs Quad PCI (eBay)
$ 60 Monitor: x4 21" CRTs (Craig's List)
$ 35 DVD: Samsung SATA DVD +- RW DL LS (MicroCenter)
$ 35 Case: RaidMax xB (Fry's)
$ 8 Fans: x2 80MM Case Fans (Tanner Electronics)
$ 24 KB: Wireless Keyboard / Mouse / Remote Control combo (Wal Mart)
$ 30 Proc: Used Pentium D processor 800MHZ FSB, 4MB Cache (Craig's List)
$ 65 RAM: 4GB PC26400 RAM
----------
$577 w/ Linux, more with a 64-Bit Microsoft OS
you can save $100 by going with a cheap NVIDIA card and x2 21" CRTs.

One final recommendation: your data is probably more valuable than your PC. Back it up. Buy an Apricorn drive cloner thingy ($24.99 at Fry's) and a second HDD ($99.99) and clone your hard disk weekly. I'll leave it to you to find a fire-proof file cabinet for free on Craig's List, or to find a friend for off-site backups.

Andy Out!

[mores]

http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/

SCNR

[sea2stars]

*grin* Wow. That sounds like a loud, power hungry $577 system; 80mm fans and ~700W just to run those 4 CRTs alone.

[recycledelectron]

Originally Posted by sea2stars

*grin* Wow. That sounds like a loud, power hungry $577 system; 80mm fans and ~700W just to run those 4 CRTs alone.

If you get fans with the 3-pin connector that conects to the motherboard, it can adjust them as needed. The Gigabte S-Series motherboards do have some nice fan corntrol features.

As for the power drawn by the monitors, you do not put them on UPSes. You actually leave them off except when you need them. If you only need one or two monitors right now, you leave the others off.

Finally, a suggestion for the truly paranoid (like myself)
(1) clone your hard disk regularly, and leave coppies at off-site backup locations (with friends.)
(2) use a nice UPS - I saw x3 1500VA UPSes on Craig's List for $100 ($33 each) recently.
(3) Keep one machine for web stuff and a second for everything else. Only move certain file type (e.g., JPEG, PDF) back and forth, and then only on a USB drive.

Andy Out!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by recycledelectron

LCDs are for idiots. They offer nothing other than sexy slimness over CRTs, and cost a fortune.

That's a little impolite.

LCDs offer three considerable benefits:

1. Space. Perhaps you have room for 4x21" CRT monitors, but I certainly don't!
2. A truly flat image. After using a good LCD display, the curved image of a CRT monitor is annoying.
3. Dramatically lower power consumption.

[RWood]

Other advantages of LCDs over CRTs is the increased contrast afforded by the LCDs and the reduced eye fatigue of the LCDs. While the first is engineering, the second is from personal experience and the experience of others. I, as an example, can work far longer on an LCD with less eye strain than I would have in the same time period with a CRT.

[JSWolf]

I have a 19" CRT here that we have as a spare monitor. Earlier this year, needed to use it while I was waiting for a refurbed LCD monitor to come from Samsung (3-year warranty is nice) and I can say that the CRT is huge. It took up a lot of room on my desk. I'll stick with my LCD monitor.

[Bob Russell]

I've got a CRT in my closet right now. I hate to let go of it because it leaves me using KVM or remote access to control an additional box, but I will probably have to in the interest of space.

In terms of functionality, I absolutely agree that it's fine. And if you have the real estate to spare, you can't really beat the deals you can get on CRTs. But I do prefer LCDs in general for my eyes, and in terms of desktop space or storage, there's no comparison.

Something about LCDs just "feels good" to me. I enjoy almost any time using electronics (which I believe reveals how much of a geek I am). LCDs are part of that good feeling.

Oddly enough, I felt that way originally when I first saw that you could actually put text on a video screen back in the 70's. It was exciting just to see the screen under your control. Younger folks probably have no way to understand the excitement over such a simple thing, but those were the days when seeing yourself on TV from a videotape was also a pretty novel concept. Must have felt somewhat like that when cameras were first available, I guess!

Back on topic, I did end up adding a second hard drive to my system, and there's room for one more in the case. Trivial to do such things once you get a feel for the standards being used these days (SATA power and data connectors in my case, as opposed to the IDE flat cable stuff I fooled around with in the "old days".) You guys have boosted my confidence enough in the various components that I feel pretty comfortable swapping just about anything out in the system now, case included. Plus, I've discovered and ordered some very promising gadgets... a power supply tester and a motherboard test card that is supposed to display the error that occurred during the power up sequence, even if the CPU is causing the error. Each gadget is about $20 if you shop around. Pretty cool! If they work, it should be very helpful in fixing the dead computer I want to turn into an Ubuntu box. Not really much to it all other than getting familiar with all the components and standards.

I think I'm finding that the art is knowing good brands and determining combinations that work well together and finding good deals. I doubt I'll ever get into it that far like some of you folks have, but even just as a novice I think one can do pretty well playing around with systems and putting them together.