12-28-2013, 02:51 PM | #23371 |
Bah, humbug!
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12-28-2013, 04:02 PM | #23372 | |||||||
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Now, using an example, if your package was shipped from Miami and headed to LA, it would a) depart MIA Intl, b) go to Louisville, c) get sorted, then get d) loaded on another plane, which would e) arrive in L.A. and your package would then be off-loaded, conveyed, scanned, recorded, sorted again, and put on a truck for delivery, OR, in a chained room to wait delivery (for a suitable truck). Now, this is a remarkably efficient method. It works superbly well, as evidenced by the fact that we're all spoiled rotten. However--and this is a big "however"--once weather starts to close down airports, the ripple effect throughout the system is massive. Why? Well, because the entire systemic functionality is dependent on the idea that Plane A, which is in, say, Dayton, OH, (at a UPS Hub there), will actually leave Dayton at a specific time, and arrive in Louisville at a specific time; that its freight will be offloaded correctly, and more importantly, that that plane, that's in Dayton, will be available for use to then go on, having been offloaded and reloaded, to Los Angeles or wherever. If planes are stranded, laden with cargo, at airports that are iced-in, the entire system is put at-risk, and packages cannot move. They can't get from where they are picked up, because they are now on a plane that's snowed/iced-in at Airport X. Or they can't get from the Hub, where they've been delivered, because the plane that they are SUPPOSED to be loaded on, is snowed/iced in at Airport Y. This causes massive backups and delays in the system. UPS and Fedex both keep extra aircraft for this very purpose--to do the southern runs--but they can't magically beam packages from the stranded aircraft to the hub, to be loaded onto the spare planes. This is how it works. That's why weather can screw up an entire delivery system. Moreover, sometimes, a package leaves the geographic area ENTIRELY, and moves to another hub, (this happens very often with slower package deliveries that are scheduled), and change planes TWICE, not once, so a package originating in the south can change at Louisville, and again at Dayton--all depends on how the air traffic is being routed. Bear in mind: this system is DYNAMIC. While some routes are static, many actually go or don't go based on package volume. Or get re-routed. On the fly, as it were. Quote:
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Not angry. Annoyed and irritated. (Trust me: if I get actually ANGRY, nobody will think I seem angry.) I see this endless stream of complaints, everywhere I go, whether it's Google+, Facebook, Twitter, and now, heaven help us, here, about how X didn't happen, or Y didn't happen, and it's someone's fault, not so-and-so's fault, and so-and-so didn't have any responsibility WHATSOEVER in what happened, etc. Or the endless, and I mean, ENDLESS ravings from low-information individuals about politics, going on and on about how they're "entitled" to this, or how (never mind, deleted before I go into no-no land). It's positively depressing and infuriating at the same time. People cannot be bothered to educate themselves, or shop earlier, like the raving Xmas shoppers whose last minute gifts didn't get somewhere on time, and apparently, they have ZERO responsibility, or can't imagine WHY the weather coming down and stranding over 100 planes could affect THEIR package, which originated in the south and was shipped to "the south," and therefore, of course, UPS should have taken a semi, loaded it up with those 20 packages, bygod, and run it to X, just to live up to their promise to have it there in 72 hours. I mean...really? A mere 10 years ago, you couldn't have received it in 96 hours, much less 1-2 days. 20 years ago, you would have had an orgasm over 7 DAY delivery. How ridiculously entitled have we all become? This didn't even have a gift-y deadline, and this warrants a rant? Really, Stitch? I'm seriously not trying to attack you personally, Stitch. Most of this irritation isn't about you. However, the entire Internet is starting to sound like being trapped in a hell in which you're stuck in the birthing nursery of a major hospital, with a crapload of crying babies. Much of my irritation is NOT directed at you, but the endless whining from people who can't be bothered to read instructions, who can't bother to educate themselves, who regurgitate whatever ridiculous verbal diarrhea is poured into their ears, with zero fact-checking...therefore, your rant about UPS, given how the weather came down, and stranded all those airplanes (and pilots, personnel, etc.) just...got on my nerve. The last one that the idjits on social media haven't already frayed. Social media may have brought the world together, but quite bluntly, for intelligent people, it sounds like the 7th level of Hell, being subjected to levels of stupidity that are excruciating. (I just deleted my description of the stupid-saturated threads I've seen in the last 24 hours on social media. No point in bringing it up here.) Anyway, hopefully, you now have a slightly better understanding as to why packages do not go from A to B. And why your package was "late," so it seems. Hitch |
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12-28-2013, 07:10 PM | #23373 | |
Surfin the alpha waves ~~
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I posted this story on December 15 in another forum I belong to -- a bunch of mostly music-lovers who mostly live in the same general area. It fits the current topic.
I suspect part of the problem is that shippers, and others, are trying to meet heavy seasonal demand with temporary workers and rented equipment. The driver in this case was definitely a temp worker. Quote:
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12-28-2013, 07:41 PM | #23374 |
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
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Aw, CRAP.
I got porn in. Not just porn. Pedo Porn. Dammit. A 14-y.o. girl "protagonist" who is violently "deflowered" and then, within pages, enjoys a gang-bang with very adult males. Written by a guy, in the girl's FP POV. I want to puke. I told him that that crosses our boundaries, and sent him away, but...FFS. I've probably had this happen only about 5x in as many years, but it always bums me out. Hitch |
12-28-2013, 09:36 PM | #23375 | |||||
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Every December in the past few hundred years we celebrate Christmas. And in the past 50-75 odd years or so, people have been sending Christmas packages via the Post or private carriers. No surprises, no act of God. EVERYONE KNOWS that there will be a crush in delivery requirements at that time of year. Some companies realize that customer satisfaction is paramount to their continued success, others think they can get away with less. Quote:
While I'm not actively 'boycotting' a service, if I can have the company use EMS that's what I'll do. If they won't, and I can find another company offering the same goods and willing to ship EMS, I will change the company I buy from. If I can NOT find an alternate, I will use UPS or FedEx and just plan for delays and higher costs. Quote:
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While it's true that I haven't read specific statistics, with everyone complaining about the economic picture today it doesn't take a lot of thinking to realize that companies are going to cut costs as much as possible. And it's been in the news often enough about various companies laying off thousands of workers, cutting the hours of thousands more, it's a pretty sure bet that UPS didn't hire nearly as many temp workers this year as they did last year. No, not fact. But a pretty safe bet. Regarding the HUB system. We know that LAX is a major hub. And Atlanta another. L.A. doesn't often get snowed in. Atlanta has in the past, and there were delays there last January, but I don't believe there was this year. Should we think that UPS is going to send a package from LA to O'hare with a final destination in Miami? Would YOU fly that way? That's wasted money. If you needed to use a HUB for a southern destination you'd use Atlanta. So while I'm sure that a lot of packages were delayed by seasonal conditions, especially those destined for northern areas, not all of the delays can be blamed upon them. Quote:
In many foreign countries, FedEx, UPS, and DHL have their own Customs Import Duty arrangement with the governments, so that they apply and collect Import Duties on EVERY package that warrants them. In Japan and Thailand, the government doesn't require import duty on EVERY import, only those over a certain dollar amount. But UPS and FedEx charge an Import duty on EVERY package regardless... We do wonder where that money goes... I prefer my international packages to travel via national post. I've never lost a package that was shipped via EMS, and rarely been charged with an Import Duty on those packages. They have always arrived within a day or two of the expected delivery date. Stitchawl |
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12-28-2013, 11:23 PM | #23376 |
Media Bloke
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This is just an observation as a manufacturer and service provider. I blame photocopiers, faxes and microwaves.
This generation has an instant gratification mentality now that expects everything instantly at the push of a button. Amazon's stupid propagander of drone deliveries in half an hour from order probably hasn't helped either. Maybe credit cards are to blame. Without credit, no one could get anything shipped without sending the cheque in the mail and waiting for it to clear. Or maybe it was Polaroid. Yes! They started it. Bloody Polaroid and their instant photos. |
12-29-2013, 12:17 AM | #23377 |
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That's possible... or... it's companies making promises they can't fulfill.
If they didn't make the the promises, no one would expect instant gratification. But if you are promised instant gratification, and you pay for instant gratification, other than an Act of God, you should expect to receive instant gratification. It's really no different than expecting your car to start when you turn the key. That's the reliability you pay for. A dead battery can't be blamed when you live in minus 20 country. You KNOW you need to use either an oil-pan warmer or a battery heater if you're going to start you car in the morning. Not buying it to save money is no excuse. P.P.P.P.P.P. (Proper planing prevents piss-poor performance.) Stitchawl |
12-29-2013, 02:04 AM | #23378 |
Professional Adventuress
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*sigh* a local restaurant owner I've known for several years now has been fighting cancer for quite some time now. He was just given less than a month to live. The town is throwing him a live tribute on the second. So sad
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12-29-2013, 02:50 AM | #23379 | ||||
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
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In any event, I am through with this, as I appear to be talking to the wall. Maybe it's all that acid from the 60's. Look up cargo hubs, and all the specialized containers, equipment, sorting buildings, etc., that are needed. The mere existence of a busy airport doesn't make it a cargo hub. That's utterly wrong. Planes with cargo for the carrier, like UPS, do fly to busy airports, where their containers are offloaded and transported to the sorting warehouse; they are not sorted at the airport, like they are at a HUB airport. The packages are picked up at point A. They go from A to a local warehouse, where they are sorted by region of destination. Then, they are palletized and sent to the airport. They are loaded, by pallet, on the airport. From there, the plane goes TO THE CARGO HUB. At the cargo hub, each package is again scanned, sorted, and redistributed to ensure that it goes on the right plane, to the right city, not just "region." The package gets repacked onto a new pallet. The PALLET goes on the correct airplane, that's going to the correct city. At the destination city, the pallet is offloaded onto semis, which go to the region or city's sorting warehouse. The pallets are broken down, the packages are scanned AGAIN, and sorted for today's deliveries versus tomorrow's, and then routed to the correct truck. That's when you get notified that a package is "out for delivery." (And that's how. What did you think happened? Some guy who drove from Miami to L.A. climbed in the back of his semi, and marked your package, and sent you a text message?) Then the driver takes his truck, and baring unforeseen disasters, ice, dogs, rude deliverees, etc., gets your package to you. Hub and spoke cargo systems. That's how it works. You obviously grossly misunderstand how package handling and tracking is managed by the big carriers. Your package doesn't go DIRECT from Miami to L.A., or whatever. That's massively cost-inefficient. And, by the way? The USPS service subcontracts ALL, repeat, ALL, their short-term delivery carrying to....wanna guess? You see lots of US Postal Service airplanes around you? Hmmm? How do you think those packages fly around? HUB AND SPOKE. So I guess you'll have to find now some complete, other way to get your packages, because no matter which way you turn, UPS is sitting there, grinning at you. Hitch |
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12-29-2013, 05:54 AM | #23380 | ||||||||
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I really don't care about the problems that the carrier faces. That's part of how he calculates his fees. It's his responsibility to meet his obligations. If the carrier said that they would deliver in two weeks, that would be fine. I don't care about the time frame. I do care about fulfilling obligations. Quote:
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I'm sorry that this is so upsetting for you. It's obvious we are approaching this issue from two different points of view, and just as obvious that we have differing ways of reacting to what in the military we called 'Failure to Repair.' I don't accept excuses. No matter what. You can blame that on drugs if you wish. I call it 'taking responsibility.' Stitchawl |
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12-29-2013, 06:41 AM | #23381 | |
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Stitch wrote:
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Not to mention, gates and arrival slots are highly regulated, at each airport. If UPS finds that it has more cargo than can be carried by (for example), 4 737 airplanes for its four slots at LA, it's out of luck. It has to move airplanes around to put larger-capacity airplanes (say, 747 Cargos) in those four slots. You can't just suddenly call LA and say, 'oh, by the way, 500,000 people waited until December 23rd to buy Xmas gifts, so now I need to land an additional 5 airplanes at your airport at the busiest travel time of the year." Can't be done. I also served in the military. That has absolutely nothing to do with this "there's no such thing as an excuse" bit. You know damned well that there's not a thing that anyone could have done about the ice storms, or the closed airports. Your insistence that regardless of all the grounded flights, and regardless of all the people who'd ordered BEFORE you, who were also waiting for their items, you should still have received your item on, I take it, December 25th (the 4th actual "day") frankly seems like nothing more than...well, I won't say it. According to you, even though UPS absolutely DID get the package to you in 4 business days, that wasn't good enough, as you clearly took it to mean 4 calendar days, even though they clearly state that it's WORKING days, not calendar days, even with 1 or 2-day delivery. Moreover, you persist in this "it should have been delivered" (what, on the 23rd? is that when you think it should have been there? In 3 days?), apparently by magic, because I have no idea how you think it COULD have gotten there. They got you the item in 4 business days. Despite the ice storms, despite it being a ridiculously busy time of year. This rant seems utterly disproportionate, as clearly, either you misunderstood what they represented, or they suddenly have a brand-new definition of "days," which is unique only to you. A new definition that isn't shown anywhere on their websites, nowhere on Amazon...nowhere. See this page: http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/shi...ice/index.html Where do you see "calendar days" on that, please? Or this one: http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/shi...ght/index.html Which clearly states that Freight Type that you've described is 3-4 BUSINESS days. Well, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but something that ships on Friday, the 20th of December (day 1), travels Dec 23-24 (days 2-3) and arrives on the 26th, (day 4) is 4-day delivery. So, now you can NOT care about shipping logistics all you want. it seems like it would have been better to acquaint yourself with what "3-4 BUSINESS Days" really means. Done now. Hitch |
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12-29-2013, 09:58 AM | #23382 | |
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Wow! Such anger! It's almost frightening... Please calm down. No one is attacking you or your family. It was a rant about poor quality customer service. That's all. Not even poor service by you or yours, but by some other company. Yet I can see you turning red from here!
You keep talking about the inner workings of the carrier business. I do NOT care. You keep talking about acts of God. I do NOT care. You keep talking about my receiving a package for Christmas. Sorry, but my shipment had nothing to do with Christmas delivery. Blaming ice storms doesn't impress me. A properly operating company does. And somehow, I can't seem to imagine that every airport all over America was shut down during those few days. A few, perhaps. But then, that's just another excuse. And in business, there is no excuse. Quote:
It's very common at West Point for two upper classmen to give orders to juniors to be two different places at the same time, time-wise, impossible to meet. Meeting one, the junior cadet is required to march punishment tours for failing to meet the other. Saying 'I couldn't be there because I was ordered to be somewhere else' is not justified no matter how logical it may seem to some. But it does teach the cadet that there are no excuses for not fulfilling obligations. There is only one answer a cadet is permitted in that situation; "No excuse, Sir." I'm not sure where you got the idea that this was some Christmas present for me or from me. It was not. Your not so subtle innuendos about selfishness are really rather nasty and rude. Where did you get the idea that I said I should get my package before people who ordered before me? I WASN'T EVEN GETTING A PACKAGE! Attacking me is quite offensive, don't you think? I had though you better than that. I guess I wasn't clear in my other posts so I'll repeat it; the company should have hired enough seasonal help and equipment so that everyone got their deliveries on time.. unless of course every freight airport in America gets shut down, right? My complaint was about customer service, aimed at a company that failed to fulfill it's promise. Regardless of your counting the days, the package was NOT delivered when it was promised. We do NOT KNOW that it was delayed because of airport closures. You may jump up and down and scream it all you want, but we really DO NOT KNOW that it was delayed because of this. It is JUST AS POSSIBLE that the delays were caused by insufficient numbers of temporary seasonal help. And again, that all goes to customer service. In this case, poor customer service. Stitchawl |
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12-29-2013, 01:56 PM | #23383 |
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They may have been open, employees may have been there, but that doesn't make it a BUSINESS day. 25 December, Saturdays, Sundays, and other major holidays aren't business days, no matter who punches in their time card and no matter how much you want that to be, you cannot make it so.
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12-29-2013, 06:30 PM | #23384 | |||||||
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I don't care about this, not one iota. I tried, repeatedly, to answer what I thought were actual questions (or reasonable ponderments, as most folks don't know the inner workings of a cargo line) as to how the system works, but as I said earlier, you apparently don't understand what I'm saying to you; you patently still think that Sat, Sun and Christmas day are 'working days' and that cargo travels on passenger liners. I obviously can't argue with any of those ideas, as they seem to be impenetrably embedded. So, hell, stay angry. Boycott UPS. Knock yourself out. Seriously: done with this part of the vent/rant thread. I've explained how the h&s works. I disagree, rather vehemently, about the portrait of the military you painted, which actually made me LOL, because the military I served in had more days like Catch-22 than days like "Jack Nicholson's soldiers in the Gitmo movie." And I served in Intelligence. (Yes: and sh*t still went wrong all the time. Miraculously, only complete and total screw-ups got Courts Martialled.) You're going to believe whatever obdurate thing you want to believe, so...I give up. The folks who've read along with this can make up their own minds. Discussing this any further is just I hope, however, that you enjoyed your Christmas holiday--oops, sorry, working day--anyway. I realize that the rest of us had off while you were working, but I hope you enjoyed the day. Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, Happy Kwanzaa, and Happy New Year to you, Stitch. Bye for now--catch you next year. Hitch |
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12-29-2013, 08:58 PM | #23385 | |||||||||||||||
Opsimath
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I said a package was shipped from California to Florida. You really didn't bother to read what I wrote. You were too busy planning your reply to it. Quote:
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But... I thought you said it wasn't delayed. Please, you can't have it both ways. Quote:
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I posted a 4-line post; (FOUR LINES) Jacksonville, FL, United States 12/26/2013 1:14 P.M. Arrival Scan San Pablo, CA, United States 12/20/2013 4:23 A.M. Departure Scan Six days for UPS to travel from California to Florida? Are they back to wagon trains again? To which you responded with posts of 24 lines going all the way up to almost 100 lines. Take a look. I said nothing in my post about delivery times. That was something you added to the discussion. I was talking about TRAVEL times between California and Florida. You sidetracked the entire thread (frankly, I didn't even realize it until now) to push your own personal agenda. Quote:
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Jacksonville, FL, United States 12/26/2013 1:14 P.M. Arrival Scan San Pablo, CA, United States 12/20/2013 4:23 A.M. Departure Scan One thing I have learned from shipping many packages is that when ever it gets transferred from one station to another, you can clearly see ALL the transfer points along the way. (That's why they call it 'Tracking.') If this package had gone through various hubs along the way, those transfer hubs would show up in the tracking routing. There are none. CA to FL. Nothing in between. There were NO TRANSFERS in HUBS. Not one. If there were, it would show up on the tracking routing. Quote:
It also demonstrates that rather a large portion of your posts were smoke and mirrors for a company that took 6 days to get a package from California to Florida. Quote:
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To you and yours as well. Stitchawl Last edited by Stitchawl; 12-29-2013 at 09:01 PM. |
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