Best epub3 fixed format readers?

[LauraBLough]

Instead of "best" maybe I should simply say "functional" as at this point I'd settle for one e-reader per OS that will simply open an epub3 fixed format file and display without changing anything and play the audio encoded into each page.

I have an illustrated children's book which I've added narration and sound effects to. All formatting was done in InDesign. Here are the e-readers I've had a moderate amount of success with so far:

It opens perfectly in iBooks on my ipad but I'm having a hard time finding other readers that will open it correctly.

"Gitden" for android works okay but smooshed my text. In order to make the text display correctly I had to convert all the type to outlines so its not actually type anymore. This seems to work okay so far but it makes it hard to edit anything which I can see being a headache in the future. Gitden also crashes on me a lot, but I'm not sure if this is a universal problem or an issue with my phone (the only android device I'd had a chance to test it on in person so far)

"Epub3 Reader" by TMA for Microsoft opens the file and the only change to the design is the smooshed text (like Gitden). However something about the way it reads the audio coding is off. The narration is set up to automatically play when you turn the page. In Epub3 Reader it plays page 1 narration on the cover page, page 2 narration on page 1, etc. That could be fixed by making the narration not be automatic (people have to click a button to play) but there are a lot of other problems with this program. Its crashes and freezes constantly and you have to have the program already open before you open a file. If you just click the file it will act like its going to open it but never gets past the load screen. According to the reviews, these problems are universal. I have used this program on my Windows 8 laptop. I haven't tried it on a Windows phone or tablet.

Does anyone know of e-readers that work better for epub3 fixed format w/ audio for Android, Microsoft, or other OS? I like iBooks for ipad, but are there other i-apps I should take a look at?

Any other suggestions on how to fix the altered text other than converting it to outlines?

Any one else have experiences with Gitden or Epub3 Reader that are better than mine?

[odedta]

I think Astri-Bee has a fixed layout functionality, before I found out about Gitden that was the app I used.

iBooks and Kindle Fire will open FL books and display them as you intended.

[LauraBLough]

I just downloaded Astri-bee to my phone. It does open fixed layout epub files but it doesn't recognize the audio parts and it doesn't seem to have an option to look at the book in landscape mode. My book is formatted so that it is shown as a 2-page spread, not individual pages, because many of the illustrations work best in a 2-page spread, and so it works best in landscape. Astri-bee only shows a portion of the page in portrait mode.

[odedta]

There is a lite version and full version, did you download the full version? anyhow, Gitden is really the best app out there in my experience. You could also try Moon+ Reader

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by LauraBLough

I just downloaded Astri-bee to my phone. It does open fixed layout epub files but it doesn't recognize the audio parts and it doesn't seem to have an option to look at the book in landscape mode. My book is formatted so that it is shown as a 2-page spread, not individual pages, because many of the illustrations work best in a 2-page spread, and so it works best in landscape. Astri-bee only shows a portion of the page in portrait mode.

I don't KNOW if this works--did you try Readium or Azardi, for a browser-based solution on PC? Your big stumbling block is that FF is, 99%, device-specific. In other words, each "retailer" (Apple, Amazon, B&N, KoboBooks) have created their own versions/specs for what FF is "supposed" to be, and how it's "supposed" to be coded. When we have a client that wants to go across the device spectrum, we make a mobi for Amazon; a NookKids' book for NookKids; an ePUB3/HTML5 for iBooks, KoboBooks and GooglePlay (now, instead of the former ePUB2 iBooks-specific coding with the page-flip animation).

I honestly don't know of any "FF" coding that works across all devices, or even a large number of devices. When I say, "devices" I also mean, software-based readers that are used on tablets or PC's or Macs. I suspect that Readium might be your best choice, but...I take it you're marketing this book from your own website, or an e-commerce website that isn't one of the Big ones, and thus, need to tell people what readers to download to read the book? Is that the situation?

The other thing is, even though we have/use INDD in-house, we basically still do FF Books by hand, coding-wise. It seems to be simpler, overall, than trying to square-peg-round-hole INDD into FF. That could, however, also just be me being old and inflexible. ;-)

Hitch

[LauraBLough]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I don't KNOW if this works--did you try Readium or Azardi, for a browser-based solution on PC? Hitch

Haven't tried those yet, but I will.

Originally Posted by Hitch

I take it you're marketing this book from your own website, or an e-commerce website that isn't one of the Big ones, and thus, need to tell people what readers to download to read the book? Is that the situation? Hitch

A little of both. My publisher is getting it onto amazon (print and kindle) and itunes so for those the formatting will be what is required and fairly straight forward. I'm not sure if iBooks will be able to sell the enhanced epub3 FF file or not (waiting to here back from my publisher), if not we have a non-enhanced (no audio) version to send them. And of course its wonderful to have the book sold as many places as possible but I also like being able to sell it directly from my website to customers both to cement the customer/seller relationship and so I don't have to share any of the $$ with Apple or Amazon or whomever.

Originally Posted by Hitch

The other thing is, even though we have/use INDD in-house, we basically still do FF Books by hand, coding-wise. It seems to be simpler, overall, than trying to square-peg-round-hole INDD into FF. That could, however, also just be me being old and inflexible. ;-)
Hitch

INDD seems to do a pretty complete job with FF, what am I missing?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by LauraBLough

Haven't tried those yet, but I will.

Good, hope one works for you.

A little of both. My publisher is getting it onto amazon (print and kindle) and itunes so for those the formatting will be what is required and fairly straight forward. I'm not sure if iBooks will be able to sell the enhanced epub3 FF file or not (waiting to here back from my publisher), if not we have a non-enhanced (no audio) version to send them. And of course its wonderful to have the book sold as many places as possible but I also like being able to sell it directly from my website to customers both to cement the customer/seller relationship and so I don't have to share any of the $$ with Apple or Amazon or whomever.

Well, there's no reason under the sun that the audio version should not be saleable--I'm a bit boggled that he's "waiting to hear back" from them--just upload it via iTunes Publisher/Transporter, and trust me, if there's an issue, they'll let you know. Their book-publishing support is pretty limited. I have done books with audio that are up on iBooks now, so I don't see any reason for you to even bat an eyelash worrying about it. How do you plan to handle DRM from your website, if you do?

INDD seems to do a pretty complete job with FF, what am I missing?

{shrug}, can't say, really, other than the amount of crap coding that INDD puts in is pretty enormous. I'm a bit of an old-school kinda girl, I like my ebooks as simply-coded as humanly possible. Don't get me wrong, we do a LOTTA INDD books (both our own, and files we intake from print publishers and layout folks who don't want to be bothered), but when it comes to the FF stuff, I prefer the "less-is-more" approach. That's all.

Hitch

[odedta]

Actually Hitch, the last time I tried Readium with a Fixed Layout ePub3 it was horrible, I think I tested a that file about 6-8 months ago, maybe they fixed their bugs.

Kindle Fire and iBooks will display a FL eBook (EPUB3) beautifully as long as you stick to the standards!

[LauraBLough]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Their book-publishing support is pretty limited. Hitch

Yes, very limited. They are one of those small scale publishers where you get a huge cut of the proceeds but in return they don't offer much support. Its probably not an ideal situation, but I like maintaining control over my books rather than handing them off to a publisher to change at their whim, so it works alright, for now.

Originally Posted by Hitch

{shrug}, can't say, really, other than the amount of crap coding that INDD puts in is pretty enormous. I'm a bit of an old-school kinda girl, I like my ebooks as simply-coded as humanly possible. Don't get me wrong, we do a LOTTA INDD books (both our own, and files we intake from print publishers and layout folks who don't want to be bothered), but when it comes to the FF stuff, I prefer the "less-is-more" approach. That's all.

Hitch

Sounds like I may need to learn more about the coding behind FF books

[LauraBLough]

Originally Posted by odedta

Kindle Fire and iBooks will display a FL eBook (EPUB3) beautifully as long as you stick to the standards!

Have you tried using Kindle Firewith a FF epub3 with audio? When I've tried it the audio just disappears - the play buttons don't even show up.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by LauraBLough

Have you tried using Kindle Firewith a FF epub3 with audio? When I've tried it the audio just disappears - the play buttons don't even show up.

Laura:

How are you building those? Are you trying to directly load an ePUB3 to the KFire, or...?

Hitch

[LauraBLough]

Tonight I used the "Kindle Kid's Book Creator" to turn my book into something that the Kindle Store could upload. the mobi file I'd created earlier and opened fine on my kindle wouldn't load into the kindle store so I went ahead and downloaded their Creator and that seemed to do the trick. There doesn't seem to be any way to add audio with the Kindle Kids Book Creator but C'est la vie. Its up in the Kindle store now, though it won't be available until Jan- http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RDQF8JW



ETA: Also had a heart to heart with the publisher today and we re-negotiated our relationship. Basically they admitted that they weren't doing crap and I said okay fine, but I want more money and they said "Done."

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by LauraBLough

Tonight I used the "Kindle Kid's Book Creator" to turn my book into something that the Kindle Store could upload. the mobi file I'd created earlier and opened fine on my kindle wouldn't load into the kindle store so I went ahead and downloaded their Creator and that seemed to do the trick. There doesn't seem to be any way to add audio with the Kindle Kids Book Creator but C'est la vie. Its up in the Kindle store now, though it won't be available until Jan- http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RDQF8JW

Well, take heart--unless your publisher has a real publisher's agreement with Amazon--in other words, have a direct FTP upload with them, as opposed to uploading via the KDP, like virtually 99% of all small imprints--the audio wouldn't work, anyway. If I make an audio Kids' book for a MOBI, it won't work if it's uploaded at the KDP--the audio is stripped out. Only Amazon-publisher uploaded books can function that way, and from what you've said thus far, I'd be surprised if your publisher has an FTP-relationship with them. (Simply because they're having you roll your own book. Amazon expects approved publishers to be making their OWN books, or paying to have them made professionally, so that the books don't run into issues post-upload.)

ETA: Also had a heart to heart with the publisher today and we re-negotiated our relationship. Basically they admitted that they weren't doing crap and I said okay fine, but I want more money and they said "Done."

Well, good--now get them up off their dead asses and get your ePUB uploaded at iTunes, etc. No reason for that to take a single day longer. It's simply uploading the damn file via Transporter. I wonder if they even have that set up?

Hitch

[odedta]

Originally Posted by LauraBLough

Have you tried using Kindle Firewith a FF epub3 with audio? When I've tried it the audio just disappears - the play buttons don't even show up.

No, but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work, a fixed layout ePub is simply a way to tell the reader to display book in a certain resolution as far as I know.
If you've created a validated EPUB3 with an audio element such as this:

<audio src="audio/clip12.mp3" controls="controls">
   <div class="err">
      <p>
         Sorry, it appears your system 
         does not support audio playback.
      </p>
   </div>
</audio>

You shouldn't have any problem displaying both the fixed layout epub and the audio element inside it. If you do, report the bug to Amazon :/

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by odedta

No, but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work, a fixed layout ePub is simply a way to tell the reader to display book in a certain resolution as far as I know.
If you've created a validated EPUB3 with an audio element such as this:

<audio src="audio/clip12.mp3" controls="controls">
   <div class="err">
      <p>
         Sorry, it appears your system 
         does not support audio playback.
      </p>
   </div>
</audio>

You shouldn't have any problem displaying both the fixed layout epub and the audio element inside it. If you do, report the bug to Amazon :/

odedta:

Just out of curiosity, how do you believe that that ePUB3 file is "getting to" the Fire? For the purposes of seeing it? And playing it?

Hitch