Format: How important is knowing the format before purchase

[PeterT]

The liberated kepub will contain the Kobo specific markup; ie a <span> around each sentence.

[GeoffR]

Originally Posted by tnhh

I don't think that this is always true. This book is missing the Blackberry icon but when you visit the old site, it says that it is DRM-free ePub.

I think the presence of the Blackberry symbol means that the book is Adobe DRM epub. The absence of the Blackberry means it is something else: maybe a DRM-free epub, or maybe only kepub.

It seems a bit strange though. Is it really true that a Blackberry can read Adobe DRM epubs but not DRM-free epubs?

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by paola

do you know how an original epub and a liberated kepub compare?

The most noticeable difference is when you look at the chapter files, there are <span class="koboSpan" id="kobo.xxx.yy"> tags wrapped around sentences and spans. Generally the chapter title is 1.1 and each paragraph/span/div tag defines a block. Moving to a new block increments the xxx with the yy indicating the sentence (using sentence loosely) within the block. Oddly, I can't find where the koboSpan class is defined.

Kobo includes two extra style files. The kobo.css file seems to be empty in all the newer kepubs I've looked at. There is a javascript file (kobo.js) which seems to define a night mode, sets up columnization, controls pagination and a chunk of code related to bookmarking using the kobospan tags. That chunk includes a couple of comments about Webkit:

 * Estimate the first anchor for the specified page number. This is used on the broken WebKit
 * where we do not know for sure if the specific anchor actually is on the page.

and

 * Estimate the page number for the specified anchor. This is used on the broken WebKit where we
 * do not know for sure how things are columnized. The page number returned is zero based.

Regards,
David

[paola]

very interesting, many thanks!

[chromedome]

Originally Posted by samy2

So you know a way to remove DRM from ebooks with just KEPUB from Kobo? If not you should care if its only KEPUB or not.

As I originally said, if I cannot find a way to make a product DRM free I would not purchase from that vendor. On the Kobo website I've always been able to download the Adobe DRM version of an e-pub, so no problem. The kepub is just a convenience on Kobo devices, but I don't have to use it exclusively, therefore, I don't understand your point?

Originally Posted by chromedome

As I originally said, if I cannot find a way to make a product DRM free I would not purchase from that vendor. On the Kobo website I've always been able to download the Adobe DRM version of an e-pub, so no problem. The kepub is just a convenience on Kobo devices, but I don't have to use it exclusively, therefore, I don't understand your point?

Lately, not all books Kobo have sold have had an Adobe DRM version available. On Kobo's new site, which has not yet been rolled out to all countries, you cannot see whether this option is available or not until after purchase.

[Lynx-lynx]

Originally Posted by chromedome

As I originally said, if I cannot find a way to make a product DRM free I would not purchase from that vendor. On the Kobo website I've always been able to download the Adobe DRM version of an e-pub, so no problem. The kepub is just a convenience on Kobo devices, but I don't have to use it exclusively, therefore, I don't understand your point?

Samy is aware of what has happened to x number of us lately - we've bought an ebook from the Kobo website on the understanding that it was an Epub, and it turned out to other than Epub.

In my case, last Sunday I bought an O'REilly published book (with the 50% off sale) on the new look Kobo Aus website, and it turned out the book was a kepub. But - I didn't know that there was no Epub available until after the sale, and for that matter the book's format has never been described by Kobo at all. By the fact that I could only access it via Kobo Desktop, it is assumed that it has to be a kepub.

Fortunately for me I was able to rename the kepub by adding the extension .epub to it and therefore convert it to an epub book.

However, because it's an O'REilly ebook, it was bound to have been DRM free (although the Kobo website did not declare any DRM status at all).

Had the ebook had DRM then the conversion of kepub to epub via the addition of the .epub extension would not have worked and I'd be stuck with a kepub only book - unless I used the new fix - which hasn't been incorporated into Alf's cadre, and therefore I'm a bit too uncomfortable to attempt it.

Make sense a bit more now?

[Lynx-lynx]

Okay, so I got an email back from Kobo re continuing Customer Care issue of not getting an Epub for the ebook I bought last Sunday:

The Modern Web
By Gasston, Peter
Grand Total: $9.69

In short - I requested to be sent the Epub version of this O'Reilly published book and Kobo said:

'We have made the necessary checks, in which we are unable to locate the eBook "The Modern Web" in the ePub file format. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

We will pass on your book request to the Kobo Content Acquisitions team. However, keep in mind that it may be some time before we’re able to obtain this particular title. Our team is uploading new and hot titles every day, so keep watch!

Please note: While we have marked this ticket as ‘solved’, this is an internal classification and is not meant to confirm that your book request has, or will be, implemented, only that your request will be reviewed by a member of the Kobo Content Acquisitions Team. '

I wonder what format they got the book from in the first place - because Kobo must have had to convert it to their kepub format themselves (or had the publisher do it on their behalf).

In the meantime, the publisher O'Reilly, definitely has Epub books, so why on earth didn't Kobo get that copy as well!

[chromedome]

Originally Posted by Seraphine

Lately, not all books Kobo have sold have had an Adobe DRM version available. On Kobo's new site, which has not yet been rolled out to all countries, you cannot see whether this option is available or not until after purchase.

I see, that is unfortunate. Maybe it hasn't happened on the UK site yet. I just took a look at my account and all my purchases are available to me as normal e-pubs some with Adobe DRM and some without. Sadly for Kobo (Rakutan) If they go kepub and "Alf" can't help then my purchases will be made elsewhere.

Sorry, I must have missed the part explaining that some countries were getting a different experience.

Kind regards,

Greg

[chromedome]

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

Samy is aware of what has happened to x number of us lately - we've bought an ebook from the Kobo website on the understanding that it was an Epub, and it turned out to other than Epub.

Had the ebook had DRM then the conversion of kepub to epub via the addition of the .epub extension would not have worked and I'd be stuck with a kepub only book - unless I used the new fix - which hasn't been incorporated into Alf's cadre, and therefore I'm a bit too uncomfortable to attempt it.

Make sense a bit more now?

I just responded to Seraphine on this, I didn't realize this was happening. Thanks for pointing it out. Looks like I do care about format a little bit at the moment, in so-far as I'll have to be more careful about buying from Kobo at the moment.

[GeoffR]

Edit: Sorry, accidentally replied to an old post.

[Lynx-lynx]

Originally Posted by GeoffR

I think the presence of the Blackberry symbol means that the book is Adobe DRM epub. The absence of the Blackberry means it is something else: maybe a DRM-free epub, or maybe only kepub.

It seems a bit strange though. Is it really true that a Blackberry can read Adobe DRM epubs but not DRM-free epubs?

Geoff I have a Kobo (native) app on my Playbook, which I used as my primary ereader for over a year (a year or two ago).

I bought ebooks via Kobo irrespective of their DRM status and was able to open and read each of them on the Playbook.

However, I don't know anything about BB phones and Kobo, that is, whether there's ever been a Kobo phone app or not. Yep, I've got a BB phone - but never been interested in reading books on it.

Edit

And I have recently re-tested the Kobo Playbook app and can still enjoy reading whatever book, DRM or not, on it.

[novellibre]

Originally Posted by witchkitten

As for removing DRM, that is a bit tricky. For one thing, there is no way to remove the DRM from kepubs on a Mac, at least to my knowledge, so a substantial proportion of the population can't remove it.

I haven't tried it myself since I don't own a Mac, but the Python script mentioned earlier in this thread says it also works on Macs.

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

unless I used the new fix - which hasn't been incorporated into Alf's cadre, and therefore I'm a bit too uncomfortable to attempt it.

For what it's worth it worked as advertised for me.

[robko]

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

Geoff I have a Kobo (native) app on my Playbook, which I used as my primary ereader for over a year (a year or two ago).

I bought ebooks via Kobo irrespective of their DRM status and was able to open and read each of them on the Playbook.

However, I don't know anything about BB phones and Kobo, that is, whether there's ever been a Kobo phone app or not. Yep, I've got a BB phone - but never been interested in reading books on it.

Edit

And I have recently re-tested the Kobo Playbook app and can still enjoy reading whatever book, DRM or not, on it.

I doubt Blackberry is a good indicator of epub. Unless I'm mistaken, on the Playbook app anyway, you can ONLY USE kepubs (there is no option to add regular epubs to it).

[GreenMonkey]

I was actually going to make a Kobo purchase a few weeks ago. I haven't ever gotten around to it - mainly because I haven't configured DRM-stripping for Adobe DRM (I buy mostly from B&N or Amazon).

But I couldn't find the file type and read about this kepub (which I honestly only know a little about) and gave up.

I'm not interested in using a bunch of different apps for each different store. Give me a standard epub I can do whatever with (most importantly putting on my e-ink Nook ST).