Another grossly overpriced ebook. - Page 8

JSWolf · 01-12-2011, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angst

It would cost Amazon their monopoly on Kindle ebook sales. If you own a Kindle, the only, (at least primary 99%+), source for ebooks is Amazon. If Amazon supported ePub they would have to compete with other book sellers. I don't think they'll risk it.

But Amazon could make it so ePub only worked on a K3 if it had the time limited DRM. That way they could support library eBooks easily without sacrificing the hold they have on customers.

BearMountainBooks · 01-12-2011, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Sony did very well this season also. The reason? Better user experience and library lending. Publishers Publishers don't learn. They don't see that lower price eBooks are selling better.

It's easier for them to complain about it than to find a way to make money with the lower prices. I know it's going to be harder for them to be profitable selling books at 5 and 10 dollars, but they've got to find a way.

I was just on another forum and the ladies were talking, complaining about another series that has been canceled. The thing is a VERY large percentage of the ladies buy the books USED. The publishers ignore the entire segment of the market that doesn't "pay" what they demand. And it's a huge loss for the authors and the readers. There has to be a way to do business smarter.

BoiseShan · 01-12-2011, 05:09 PM

This whole thread sounds like a great argument in support of libraries!

greencat · 01-12-2011, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silasgreenback

If a digital version is more than the paperback, it's a dealbreaker for sure. Content is one thing, but a tangible item will always trump a file in value for me.

Agreed. Perhaps I'm too old but I don't get people with MP3 only music collections. One borked hard drive and your collection's gone. Or you spend time filing and archiving. Life is too short.

Trashy novels (and I'm guilty of reading quite a few from time to time) are perhaps the exception, but I've never paid more than a quid for a disposable novel. I'd pay about the same for a similar ebook for the convenience of having it sent to my Kindle near instantly. Hard to persuade me to spend more, especially with DRM as they can't be gifted, loaned or sold.

Perhaps there is an ebook out there that I'd spend more than a quid on, but I'm certain there's no ebook I'd spend £300 on (although I have a one or two dead tree first editions worth around this).

Harmon · 01-12-2011, 06:53 PM

I don't know about you, but if you are like me there have been times where the factors favoring the purchase of a paperback have led me to pay MORE for a paperback than for the hardback. This has mainly been in used bookstores, but once in a while I'll buy a more expensive paperback rather than a cheaper remaindered hardback.

Now we have a third content container, the EBR. The EBR is not a stripped down version of the other two containers. It is a separate container with virtues and drawbacks of its own. And what the market may be telling us is that in some circumstances, it is actually worth more than one or even both of the other two containers.

The price of a book is meaningful to me only when it is the primary factor influencing my buying, and what's odd is that it almost never is the primary factor. I am to the point where there are some books that I simply will not buy if they are not in ebook, no matter what the price of the hardback or paperback, higher or lower. I have on a few occasions bought used or been given new a hardback or paperback, and wound up buying the ebook anyway.

So I really don't care what the hardback or paperback is selling for most of the time. And I think that the publishers grasp that. To some extent they are positioning ebooks over and against the other two kinds of books in terms of timing and pricing, but I think that the larger picture is that ebook pricing is seeking its own level in light of there being a lot of us who find the most important factor to be the ebook format itself.

taustin · 01-12-2011, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greencat

Agreed. Perhaps I'm too old but I don't get people with MP3 only music collections. One borked hard drive and your collection's gone. Or you spend time filing and archiving. Life is too short.

If you keep anything of value on your computer, anything at all, and do not keep backups. you will eventually lose it. And backups aren't a big deal if you do it right. It can be completely automated fairly easily, in the middle of the night. Or set up a shortcut on your desktop that runs it when you choose.

If you don't, you will lose everything on your computer eventually.

NVash · 01-12-2011, 08:19 PM

I was once told that something is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it. The more this argument is presented the more I think the publishers are being very stubborn. They want $10-15 for a book and they insist they get it. Sure, they may only have 300 people buying the book for that price when if they were to drop it to $5 they might have $3,000 people. Truthfully peple arent willing to pay it. They can break that down a million times over with some complex mumbo jumbo about who needs to get paid, when, where, how, no one cares. The consumer doesnt care about any of this mess and why should they? The paperback is $5, the hardback is $10, ebook is $12? Plus you have DRM on the ebook? It makes no sense but they dont care. I dont know much about how things work for them, who gets paid and how much but I honestly believe that the minute they start lowering prices theyll start making money hand over fist.

Redcard · 01-13-2011, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But Amazon could make it so ePub only worked on a K3 if it had the time limited DRM. That way they could support library eBooks easily without sacrificing the hold they have on customers.

The ePub isn't the problem. EPUB is easy, open, and codable. If the Amazon kindle tomorrow could read EPUB, then you still won't have library books. For the Kindle to have library books, Amazon would have to license the DRM from Adobe, and pay either a flat fee or a "per item" fee (this would be gathered likely from diagnostic data from Kindle users after one year.) They likely would also have to license the overdrive technology as well.

See, here's the problem.

MOBI is Mobipocket.
EPUB is EPUB.
PDF is Adobe PDF.
RTF is Microsoft.

Now, those on their own COULD BE open to all platforms. There's not much problem there.

What the problem is , though, is that library books aren't JUST Epub.

EPUB is the container. Inside the container is a locked box with Adobe and Overdrive holding onto the keys. That box doesn't NEED to be locked, just in the case of Overdrive it is. If you buy an EPUB book from Apple, you need Apple's key to unlock it. If you buy an EPUB book from Sony, you need Sony's key. If you check out a book from the library, you need Overdrive and Adobe's key.

elcreative · 01-13-2011, 01:00 PM

Very succinctly put...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redcard

The ePub isn't the problem. EPUB is easy, open, and codable. If the Amazon kindle tomorrow could read EPUB, then you still won't have library books. For the Kindle to have library books, Amazon would have to license the DRM from Adobe, and pay either a flat fee or a "per item" fee (this would be gathered likely from diagnostic data from Kindle users after one year.) They likely would also have to license the overdrive technology as well.

See, here's the problem.

MOBI is Mobipocket.
EPUB is EPUB.
PDF is Adobe PDF.
RTF is Microsoft.

Now, those on their own COULD BE open to all platforms. There's not much problem there.

What the problem is , though, is that library books aren't JUST Epub.

EPUB is the container. Inside the container is a locked box with Adobe and Overdrive holding onto the keys. That box doesn't NEED to be locked, just in the case of Overdrive it is. If you buy an EPUB book from Apple, you need Apple's key to unlock it. If you buy an EPUB book from Sony, you need Sony's key. If you check out a book from the library, you need Overdrive and Adobe's key.

BearMountainBooks · 01-13-2011, 01:26 PM

Thanks Redcard. Great explanation. I hope Amazon is somehow working on the library thing (their own version or some version) because it is a selling point. Of course it's not all that attractive to authors/publishers unless a "pay per checkout" scheme is ever done... (I think that is the way it works in the UK and before anyone gets up-in-arms, the checkout fee is VERY small--10 to 15 cents per book paid back to the publishers).

Redcard · 01-13-2011, 01:52 PM

I doubt you'll ever see library reading on the kindle, unless it came with a "I liked this, can I buy it now?" at the end of the books.

montealan · 01-13-2011, 03:09 PM

I buy most of my ebooks from Kobo. They always seem to have discount coupons of anywhere from $1.00 to 50% off. These coupons only work on the non agency books, so that is what I get from Kobo. If a want an agency book I will check BOMC2. Most of their books are $9.99 hardback, shipped for free.

Otherwise I will leave it on my wish list until the price drops, or I can get it by other means.

Which brings me to the question of how can BOMC2 sell hardback new books (bookclub editions) at $9.99 (shipping included)?

NVash · 01-13-2011, 03:28 PM

Im wondering if ebook prices will ever drop. If the book price drops why cant the ebook price? Tell me, who will want to buy an old ebook for $10 when they can buy a used paperback version for $4? Ebook prices should drop just like regular book prices do or just come out fairly reasonable to begin with.

Belle2Be · 01-13-2011, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angst

It would cost Amazon their monopoly on Kindle ebook sales. If you own a Kindle, the only, (at least primary 99%+), source for ebooks is Amazon. If Amazon supported ePub they would have to compete with other book sellers. I don't think they'll risk it.

All they would have to do (which they do anyway) is keep their prices competitive to keep people at Amazon. Would you be able to download an ePub as easy as you can an azw? I'm not sure how the ePub thing works.

John F · 01-13-2011, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redcard

...
PDF is Adobe PDF.
...

I thought PDF was an open standard?

Quote:

... If you buy an EPUB book from Sony, you need Sony's key. ...

Could you expand on this. I thought that an EPub purchased from Sony could be used on any device that uses ADE DRM. Or are you talking about the Sony Library software being the key?

Thanks.

01-12-2011, 06:53 PM	#110
Harmon King of the Bongo Drums Posts: 1,622 Karma: 5927225 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Excelsior! (Strange...)	I don't know about you, but if you are like me there have been times where the factors favoring the purchase of a paperback have led me to pay MORE for a paperback than for the hardback. This has mainly been in used bookstores, but once in a while I'll buy a more expensive paperback rather than a cheaper remaindered hardback. Now we have a third content container, the EBR. The EBR is not a stripped down version of the other two containers. It is a separate container with virtues and drawbacks of its own. And what the market may be telling us is that in some circumstances, it is actually worth more than one or even both of the other two containers. The price of a book is meaningful to me only when it is the primary factor influencing my buying, and what's odd is that it almost never is the primary factor. I am to the point where there are some books that I simply will not buy if they are not in ebook, no matter what the price of the hardback or paperback, higher or lower. I have on a few occasions bought used or been given new a hardback or paperback, and wound up buying the ebook anyway. So I really don't care what the hardback or paperback is selling for most of the time. And I think that the publishers grasp that. To some extent they are positioning ebooks over and against the other two kinds of books in terms of timing and pricing, but I think that the larger picture is that ebook pricing is seeking its own level in light of there being a lot of us who find the most important factor to be the ebook format itself. Last edited by Harmon; 01-13-2011 at 05:48 PM.

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01-12-2011, 05:09 PM	#108
BoiseShan Connoisseur Posts: 89 Karma: 14598 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: Kindle	This whole thread sounds like a great argument in support of libraries!

01-12-2011, 08:19 PM	#112
NVash Wandering Vagabond Posts: 282 Karma: 350000 Join Date: Apr 2010 Device: iPod Touch	I was once told that something is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it. The more this argument is presented the more I think the publishers are being very stubborn. They want $10-15 for a book and they insist they get it. Sure, they may only have 300 people buying the book for that price when if they were to drop it to $5 they might have $3,000 people. Truthfully peple arent willing to pay it. They can break that down a million times over with some complex mumbo jumbo about who needs to get paid, when, where, how, no one cares. The consumer doesnt care about any of this mess and why should they? The paperback is $5, the hardback is $10, ebook is $12? Plus you have DRM on the ebook? It makes no sense but they dont care. I dont know much about how things work for them, who gets paid and how much but I honestly believe that the minute they start lowering prices theyll start making money hand over fist.

01-13-2011, 01:26 PM	#115
BearMountainBooks Maria Schneider Posts: 3,746 Karma: 26439330 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Near Austin, Texas Device: 3g Kindle Keyboard	Thanks Redcard. Great explanation. I hope Amazon is somehow working on the library thing (their own version or some version) because it is a selling point. Of course it's not all that attractive to authors/publishers unless a "pay per checkout" scheme is ever done... (I think that is the way it works in the UK and before anyone gets up-in-arms, the checkout fee is VERY small--10 to 15 cents per book paid back to the publishers).

01-13-2011, 01:52 PM	#116
Redcard Addict Posts: 235 Karma: 1202269 Join Date: Mar 2008 Device: Kindle	I doubt you'll ever see library reading on the kindle, unless it came with a "I liked this, can I buy it now?" at the end of the books.

01-13-2011, 03:09 PM	#117
montealan Enthusiast Posts: 27 Karma: 40 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: El Dorado Hills, California Device: Kobo Glo, Kobo Aura One, Likebook T80D	I buy most of my ebooks from Kobo. They always seem to have discount coupons of anywhere from $1.00 to 50% off. These coupons only work on the non agency books, so that is what I get from Kobo. If a want an agency book I will check BOMC2. Most of their books are $9.99 hardback, shipped for free. Otherwise I will leave it on my wish list until the price drops, or I can get it by other means. Which brings me to the question of how can BOMC2 sell hardback new books (bookclub editions) at $9.99 (shipping included)?

01-13-2011, 03:28 PM	#118
NVash Wandering Vagabond Posts: 282 Karma: 350000 Join Date: Apr 2010 Device: iPod Touch	Im wondering if ebook prices will ever drop. If the book price drops why cant the ebook price? Tell me, who will want to buy an old ebook for $10 when they can buy a used paperback version for $4? Ebook prices should drop just like regular book prices do or just come out fairly reasonable to begin with.

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