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Old 02-21-2012, 10:31 AM   #106
Ethelred?
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Originally Posted by Beryll Snyder View Post
Actually I am somewhat frustrated too being given half-truths and not exactly plausible explanations.
They don't close an account just because they don't like you or for random reasons - so something happened to initiate this process which you don't care to give details here.
And just to be clear: these things can and do happen without good reason. Services at this scale, with millions of customers, rely on automatic flagging. If your flagging system is not aggressive enough you let too many account use violations go uncaught; if you make your system more aggressive, in order to catch all violators, you're going to have some (hopefully small) number of false positives flagged as well. That's pretty much unavoidable at this scale and that's okay, but there needs to be a way for you to correct the situation if you're one of the (hopefully few) unlucky people who's been mistakenly flagged. There's no way to do that if the company just flat-out refuses to communicate with you.

Again, this isn't about a personal decision someone made at Amazon. This is about automatic flagging, and the fact that spending employee time investigating claims is not cost-effective for most companies -- so they just plain don't.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:37 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Ethelred? View Post
If your flagging system is not aggressive enough you let too many account use violations go uncaught; if you make your system more aggressive, in order to catch all violators, you're going to have some (hopefully small) number of false positives flagged as well. That's pretty much unavoidable at this scale and that's okay, but there needs to be a way for you to correct the situation if you're one of the (hopefully few) unlucky people who's been mistakenly flagged. There's no way to do that if the company just flat-out refuses to communicate with you.
That seems to be the issue in a nutshell.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:45 AM   #108
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How To Close An Amazon Account

Just for fun I looked up how to close an Amazon account. I've never needed to and wondered how it was done. I am familiar with eBay and know it's not so easy to do & actually involves an eBay rep to close it. You don't just hit a button and you're done.

Here's what I found on Amazon.

How To Close Your Amazon Account

Right underneath the instructions to close the account are instructions on how to change your email address and remove your credit card. Apparently there are people out there who think they have to close an account when they've merely changed an email address.

So IMO this gives the OP less credibility. To close their account they'd have in all likelihood seen this message somewhere along the way trying to contact Amazon CS to close it, are you just changing your email address, then do this.

We're not getting all the facts here.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:48 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Ethelred? View Post
Again, this isn't about a personal decision someone made at Amazon. This is about automatic flagging, and the fact that spending employee time investigating claims is not cost-effective for most companies -- so they just plain don't.
I don't mind been caught up as a false positive now and then, may be an inconvenience but just as the odd time I've had to verify a CC transaction due to their fraud checks, it's fair enough.

The problem is how they deal with appeals, if that process provides sufficient information to you about why the account is closed, then you can at least defend yourself and provide information to show why a mistake may have been made.

If that process is simply, we've closed your account for some overly general reason and will not discuss this further. Then you have no recourse. You can't determine if you've done something wrong, if a family member has, if you've been the victim of fraud or if there's just been a computer error thats flagged you by mistake.

With the amount of vendor lock in that is occurring with digital content and digital services, this can be a major problem.

Last edited by JoeD; 02-21-2012 at 10:50 AM.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:56 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Shopaholic View Post

So IMO this gives the OP less credibility. To close their account they'd have in all likelihood seen this message somewhere along the way trying to contact Amazon CS to close it, are you just changing your email address, then do this.

We're not getting all the facts here.
I'm *sure* we're not getting all the facts here. What seems uncertain is whether the OP actually knows those facts, or if s/he knows them but hasn't made the connection to them. It could be, for example, that their account got hacked by someone who violated terms, or that a guest use their computer and violated terms, or that it was some kind of weird coincidence or mistake.

The blog http://consumerist.com runs articles on these problems all the time; an article like this might get Amazon's attention. I recommend trying to publicize it there as long as you aren't afraid of what an investigation might dig up.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:58 AM   #111
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I want to believe that everything's above-board here, and that you're just the victim of a misunderstanding. But, IMO, we're not quite getting the whole story.

Also, it's clear you're not just a "regular" Amazon customer. Let me explain that by comparison...


I'd consider myself to fall pretty much into the "standard customer" category.
  • I've been an Amazon customer for well over 10 years.
  • My primary interaction with Amazon has been to make regular purchases from them of physical items shipped to my home address.
  • I have used only a small number of different credit cards during that time
  • I have changed home address only a few times and login email address just once.
  • I have never had another Amazon.com account. (Nor have I tried to open another one.)
  • I have never had any "non-standard" flags on my account -- student, teacher, parent, etc.
  • I have never sold items via Amazon.
  • I have only ever returned 2 items in 10 years. Both physical items: once because I accidentally ordered 2 copies (my bad, I paid for the return shipping); once because an electronics item had a provably incorrect product description and it was incompatible on arrival.
  • The only potentially "odd" activity is having had 3 or 4 orders shipped to my name at one particular foreign address (family back in the UK), but that address has remained unchanged on my Amazon account for 10 years.

With that general usage and purchasing pattern, I'd say there's very little opportunity for Amazon to flag my account for unusual activity.



Now compare your usage pattern:

- You've sold thousands of dollars'-worth of merchandise via Amazon. While not "unusual", exactly, it does still put you in a very small minority of Amazon customers, percentage-wise.

- You're an Amazon Student member. Again, relative minority.

- You've utilized their "trade-in" program before. (Trading-in what?) Yet again, this probably puts you in a minority.

- You had just returned a product prior to the ban for "arriving in a different condition than described". (You say you "never returned a large amount of items" -- but that's subjective and still doesn't really tell us whether you've returned items on a regular basis, or if (like me) this is an incredibly unusual, one-off occurrence for you. Bear in mind I've returned 2 items in 10+ years. The fact that a 2-3 year customer just happens to have been banned after returning an item, having obviously returned others in the past, is a red flag to me.)

- Moreover you express concern about whether you'd be able to return items from your current orders that just shipped if they turned out to be defective. Given the minimal failure rate on most products, I can't say that problems with returns on outstanding orders would ever have crossed my mind in comparison to the aggravation of fighting to get my account reopened -- but apparently it's at the forefront of yours.

----> The whole "buyer/seller/student/trade-in/returns" scenario here could -- if one were a complete cynic (not saying whether I fall into that category...) -- smell of someone trying to work the system. Especially in light of your account(s) situation:


- You have multiple current accounts. ("Other active accounts", per your original post.)

- You've had at least one Amazon account in the past, which you closed voluntarily March 2011.

- It appears you've had several additional Amazon accounts in the past, also closed voluntarily: "I have went ahead and checked through all my past accounts, and every single one was closed on my OWN request." (This directly contradicts what you said later: "I had only closed 1 account prior to this one being closed, but that was in March of 2011." You go on to restate this several times. Something's not adding up here. We're not getting the full story on all your past and present accounts.)

- You tried to open a new account after receiving this recent ban -- contrary to their email instructions -- only to have that new account immediately re-banned.

----> Overall, it sounds like you've had a ton of Amazon accounts. While that may not be in direct violation of their TOS, it does open up a whole mess of potential confusion for sorting this out. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if it flags you for scrutiny in Amazon's system -- it certainly sets off alarm bells here.



Sorry if you really are 100% innocent and are simply getting screwed by the system. But understand that your story, as you've relayed it in pieces here, simply doesn't add up. And the pieces that do fit together trigger a bunch of "Whoah, definitely not your run-of-the-mill Amazon customer" alarms in my head.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:22 AM   #112
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Hello overfloater.

The trade-in program is the program where you trade in videogames and old electronics to Amazon.com. More information can be found here:

http://www.amazon.com/Trade-In/b?ie=...ode=2242532011

In my 3 years of being an Amazon customer, I have had only 3 returns out of about 130 orders or so, keeping in mind those are the only physical orders. I have had well over 600 digital orders (Including Kindle, Amazon Apps and Amazon Mp3 orders).

That puts my return rate at .4% assuming that digital orders count the same as physical, or 2.3% assuming physical orders only.

I had to return my last product because it was listed as in "Like New" condition (It was shipped by Warehouse Deals fulfilled by Amazon, not amazon themselves) and it came in absolute garbage condition. The back was completely scratched up and included 3 dead pixels smack dab in the middle of the screen.

I didn't just mean if it comes defective, UPS also comes into play here. Recently, my orders from Amazon have arrived in terrible condition due to their package (or UPS handling of my packages). Many of them have had dents to the box and even the product box. However, the products have all been undamaged since the product box was constructed properly instead of the flimsy amazon boxes with just 1 piece of brown tape over the seal. Keep in mind I did not contact Amazon to complain because the actual product was in good condition and I understand it is not their fault due to UPS's poor handling.

The only times I returned my packages were due to truly defective products.

Shopaholic -- That information was not available in March of 2011 on the particular link. It was edited after that date, my guess as to people contacting Amazon multiple times about if they need to close their account to change their e-mail. Keep in mind that account was closed 11 months ago, Amazon updates its information regularly.

Here is the e-mail I recieved (for the account I closed myself) after clicking the link to close my account

Hello,

I'm sorry for the inconvenience caused.

I want to make sure that closing your Amazon.com account won't cause problems with any open transactions or other websites you might visit.

If you still want to close your Amazon.com account after reviewing the items below, please write back by visiting this link:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/rsvp/rsvp-mi.html?q=acc1

Here are some things to keep in mind:

-- If you use your Amazon.com log-in on other sites (e.g., Endless.com, Audible.com, etc.), you'll also lose access to those accounts.
-- Any open orders you have will be canceled.
-- If you have a remaining Amazon.com Gift Card balance, you won't have access to use the funds.
-- Returns and refunds can't be processed for orders on closed accounts.
-- You won't be able to re-download the Kindle content purchased on this account.
-- Your Amazon Payments account will be closed and can't be reopened.
-- You'll no longer have access to your Associates, Amazon Web Services, Corporate, Seller, Author Central, and/or Mechanical Turk accounts.
-- If you have an Amazon Web Services account, please contact AWS customer support for assistance with closing your AWS account :
https://aws-portal.amazon.com/gp/aws...nt-and-billing

I hope this helps.

Thank you for your recent inquiry. Did I solve your problem?

If yes, please click here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/survey...19REK5SUL&k=hy

If no, please click here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/survey...19REK5SUL&k=hn



Best regards,

Mirza B
Amazon.com
Your feedback is helping us build Earth's Most Customer-Centric Company.
http://www.amazon.com/your-account

---- Original message: ----








---------------
03/14/11 18:14:32
Your Name:Jack
Comments:Hi, I would like to close my account.
Thanks for your patience.
---------------



AFTER clicking the link, I received this message:

Hello,

Your account has been closed and I've unsubscribed your e-mail address, xxx@hotmail.com(Had to edit out this part, don't want people seeing my e-mail), from our mailing list. Your account is no longer accessible to you or anyone else.

We've appreciated your business and wish you the best of luck in the future.

Did I solve your problem?

If yes, please click here:
http://www.amazon.com/rsvp-y?c=yyrarbec3384686577

If no, please click here:
http://www.amazon.com/rsvp-n?c=yyrarbec3384686577

Please note: this e-mail was sent from an address that cannot accept incoming e-mail.

To contact us about an unrelated issue, please visit the Help section of our web site.

Best regards,

Ajeeth M.
Amazon.com
Your feedback is helping us build Earth's Most Customer-Centric Company.
http://www.amazon.com/your-account

---- Original message: ----

--------------
03/15/11 18:52:33 PDT
NAME: Jack
COMM ID:
COMMENTS: I would like to close my amazon account. Thank you.


This is the only other amazon account that I have had apart from my main account which was closed 2 days ago. I have not had/opened any other account. I do have a seller account, but that was under the same e-mail address that my recently closed account was under.

Hope this clears some questions.

Last edited by jrw93; 02-21-2012 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:44 AM   #113
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jrw93 - As an Amazon seller, have you ever sold an item that you originally purchased from/on Amazon while you've been an Amazon student member?
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:51 AM   #114
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CWatkins --

Yes I have. This is normally used videogames and or used textbooks. I bought them brand new, played the games, and resold them if I got bored of them. Same with textbooks, once the class semester was finished, I would resell all of them.

That isn't a violation of policy, however.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:56 AM   #115
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CWatkins --

Yes I have. This is normally used videogames and or used textbooks. I bought them brand new, played the games, and resold them if I got bored of them. Same with textbooks, once the class semester was finished, I would resell all of them.

That isn't a violation of policy, however.
It could be construed as one. Your Student membership comes with limited Prime benefits, making you subject to the Prime terms that apply to those benefits, such as:

Quote:
Prime members are not permitted to purchase products for the purpose of resale or to ship to their customers or potential customers using Prime benefits.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custom...odeId=13819201

You might not have initially purchased them with the intent to resell, but if your account was showing several matches of products sold with products shipped with Prime, it could have been flagged as reselling.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:00 PM   #116
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Hum that could be a possibility.

But I have only placed 1 particular order for each product that I sold later (usually MONTHS later).

I don't purchase 30-40x textbooks using prime and resell them at a later date. I usually purchase the products I actually need, and then sell them when I'm done using it.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:09 PM   #117
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Either way, it's really bad that they won't tell you the reason. If it's a problem with one of your own accounts there can't be any "privacy" issues. If it's because of someone else's account, well surely you should be given some sort of explanation anyway. Like "It's someone else's account, but we think it has to do with you because..."

Just my opinion though...
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:25 PM   #118
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I guess my problem with all of this is that when Amazon closes account they tend to be pretty clear as to why they close an account. People are told that their account was hacked or that they had returned too many goods or whatever the reason.

The response that you got just feels amazingly generic and not like the other account closures I have read about. I get the feeling from reading other folks posts that I am not the only one baffled by the generic response.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:35 PM   #119
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What I dont understand HOW they can close an account & NOT allow the person to at least get their ebooks,etc. Or compensate them in some way for Legal purchased content. Seems to me THEY are the ones Stealing! Stealing IS against the law. Not like they dont have a list of what the ebooks have cost the person.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:38 PM   #120
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What I dont understand HOW they can close an account & NOT allow the person to at least get their ebooks,etc. Or compensate them in some way for Legal purchased content. Seems to me THEY are the ones Stealing! Stealing IS against the law. Not like they dont have a list of what the ebooks have cost the person.
Because it's clearly stated in Amazon's Terms of Service. Break the rules and you lose access to your content. You can read that before you buy - it's there for everyone to see.

But this is why (to repeat yet again) it's so important to BACK UP YOUR CONTENT AS SOON AS YOU BUY IT. Assuming that someone else will keep it safe for you is very... unwise.
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