super hero comics with rounded characters

[Namekuseijin]

I like it that the japanese truly end their series. No more Goku dying and coming alive again in DBZ. Despite being a multimillionaire franchise, the series ended for real.

Can you imagine that for Batman, Spidey or Superdude?

[bill_mchale]

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

I like it that the japanese truly end their series. No more Goku dying and coming alive again in DBZ. Despite being a multimillionaire franchise, the series ended for real.

Can you imagine that for Batman, Spidey or Superdude?

Actually, there are some Japanese comics that have had impressively long runs (30+ years!). When you have been running that long, it probably means that there was no definitive plan to end it .

--
Bill

[Namekuseijin]

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

Actually, there are some Japanese comics that have had impressively long runs (30+ years!). When you have been running that long, it probably means that there was no definitive plan to end it .

--
Bill

but japanese manga are author-driven. If the author dies, that's it folks.

It's very different from characters owned by publishing houses.

If Harry Potter was a comic book, someone else would be hired to give it new spins, reboot it, put it into some parallel universe, kill him than ressurect him, picture him as a zombie and all sorts of silly stuff to get new readers into the pointless brand.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

If Harry Potter was a comic book, someone else would be hired to give it new spins, reboot it, put it into some parallel universe, kill him than ressurect him, picture him as a zombie and all sorts of silly stuff to get new readers into the pointless brand.

Which is what happened to Timothy Hunter.
(Mind you, there were some really good stories among those new spins.)

[charlesatan]

Kurt Busiek's Astro City. One of the most character-driven superhero comics.

Not sure if Mark Waid's Irredeemable and Incorruptible applies.

Robert Kirkman's Invincible too.

[JAcheson]

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

I like it that the japanese truly end their series. No more Goku dying and coming alive again in DBZ. Despite being a multimillionaire franchise, the series ended for real.

Can you imagine that for Batman, Spidey or Superdude?

Didn't Goku come back from the dead several times in the course of DBZ?

And then there's Dragonball Kai...

There are a number of classic manga/anime franchises that are perennials, and get rebooted every decade or so. I don't even know how many Tetsuwan Atomo/Astro Boy adaptations there have been.

There are also a lot of long-running manga series that just stop, rather than having a proper ending. Ranma 1/2, say, or Uresei Yatsura.

[jtdolphins]

Originally Posted by JAcheson

Didn't Goku come back from the dead several times in the course of DBZ?

There was usually some reason to keep him from fighting the new bad guy and being dead was used at least once.

Originally Posted by JAcheson

There are a number of classic manga/anime franchises that are perennials, and get rebooted every decade or so. I don't even know how many Tetsuwan Atomo/Astro Boy adaptations there have been.

There are also a lot of long-running manga series that just stop, rather than having a proper ending. Ranma 1/2, say, or Uresei Yatsura.

There are at least 3 Astro boy cartoons that I have watched could be more.

I think the point being made though, is that it isn't uncommon to find manga or anime that have an actual story with an ending in mind. This is pretty rare in american comics. Yes there are anime/manga that have been going on for years, but there are also a lot that had specific endings. I have a bookcase full of both. I have very few american comics that had specific endings. I'm not talking about books that were canceled either, but were ended by the creative team once they told their story.

[JAcheson]

Originally Posted by jtdolphins

I think the point being made though, is that it isn't uncommon to find manga or anime that have an actual story with an ending in mind. This is pretty rare in american comics. Yes there are anime/manga that have been going on for years, but there are also a lot that had specific endings. I have a bookcase full of both. I have very few american comics that had specific endings. I'm not talking about books that were canceled either, but were ended by the creative team once they told their story.

I see your point.

In Japan, I think that manga tends to be plotted out with an eye towards its eventual publication in tankoban (trade paperback) form. Even if the overall story arc continues from volume to volume, you usually get an end to an individual storyline at the end of a volume, or at least some kind of coda. And usually, when the end comes, they wrap it up at the end of a complete volume.

That's starting to be more common in the US as well, with 12-issue arcs being designed for publication as one or two trades.

[charlesatan]

Originally Posted by JAcheson

Even if the overall story arc continues from volume to volume, you usually get an end to an individual storyline at the end of a volume, or at least some kind of coda.

That's not quite true. While some story arcs can end at the end of a volume, there's no guarantee that each volume will have some sort of resolution. In fact, the ending point can, at times, be arbitrary, especially when it comes to longer serials.

Which is just to say, it depends on the manga you're reading. Uzumaki by Junji Ito? Has some resolution at the end of the volume. One Piece by Eichiiro Oda? Not so much, unless it is the closing volume to an arc.

There's probably more structure in the US trades you mention below.

That's starting to be more common in the US as well, with 12-issue arcs being designed for publication as one or two trades.

[bill_mchale]

I don't know about most American comics, but I know Usagi Yojimbo (which isn't a superhero comic unless you consider a samurai rabbit a superhero) tends to have story arcs that are the right length for trade paperbacks. The trade paperbacks are the only way I have ever read it... which was a lot nicer than having to wait a month to find out what happened next .

--
Bill

[HarryT]

What does the expression "jumped the shark" mean? Haven't come across that one before.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by HarryT

What does the expression "jumped the shark" mean? Haven't come across that one before.

It comes from the TV show Happy Days. During the later series, when ratings were flagging, the Cunninhams went on vacation to the beach, and Fonzie rode waterskis to jump a shark (warning: TVtropes link), which was received as a publicity stunt to increase ratings with no regard to the internal storylines of the show.

It's come to mean "blatant attempt to draw in new/lost viewers that interferes with current viewers' enjoyment."

[HarryT]

Thanks.

[Namekuseijin]

even I knew that one and I don't even know who Fonzie is!

[JAcheson]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

It comes from the TV show Happy Days. During the later series, when ratings were flagging, the Cunninhams went on vacation to the beach, and Fonzie rode waterskis to jump a shark (warning: TVtropes link), which was received as a publicity stunt to increase ratings with no regard to the internal storylines of the show.

It's come to mean "blatant attempt to draw in new/lost viewers that interferes with current viewers' enjoyment."

It's more "this is the point at which the creators lost track of what made the show good in the first place, and it was never as good again."

For Happy Days, the shark jump episode marks the point at which the show deviated completely from its original premise ("American Graffiti" style nostalgia sitcom about Richie Cunningham and his friends) and became "The Fonzie Show," which was not nearly as good.