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Old 10-17-2015, 10:40 AM   #61
Toxaris
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Originally Posted by jackie_w View Post
I wasn't aware of this Sigil plugin, however it's a long time since I used it. Has it been extended to open AZW3 and KEPUB books these days?

IIRC Sigil used to make some fairly significant structural auto-changes during opening. Is this still the case? IMO this is not necessarily helpful when the aim is troubleshooting. Does anyone else have an opinion?
I think the plugin can be converted to a Calibre plugin without much trouble.
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Old 10-17-2015, 01:17 PM   #62
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@jackie_w Hey, I am delighted by calibre plugins, I have no objections whatsoever to them being made

And I agree with Jellby, this plugin will be useful regardless of what MR decides.
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Old 10-17-2015, 01:27 PM   #63
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Hi Jackie,

The moderating team has discussed the question you raised, and we're happy to give you the go-ahead for this suggested work, provided that the following conditions are met:

1. All text, table of contents, headings, textual metadata, etc, must be replaced with scrambled text.
2. All images must be replaced with scrambled images or removed.

Provided that your suggested plug-in produces output which satisfies these conditions, there would be no problem in uploading such output to MobileRead's forums.

One thing to bear in mind with any book is that it might contain embedded fonts that could be protected by copyright. Given that there is no practical method for the tool to know whether or not a font is protected by copyright, and that it could significantly alter the functionality of the book to simply delete the fonts, please make sure that you prominently request users of your tool to ensure that a book contains no copyrighted fonts before uploading it.

Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any further questions about this.

Last edited by HarryT; 10-17-2015 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 10-17-2015, 02:51 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
One thing to bear in mind with any book is that it might contain embedded fonts that could be protected by copyright. Given that there is no practical method for the tool to know whether or not a font is protected by copyright, and that it could significantly alter the functionality of the book to simply delete the fonts, please make sure that you prominently request users of your tool to ensure that a book contains no copyrighted fonts before uploading it.

Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any further questions about this.
Thanks, Harry!

Re: the fonts, I'd already given this some more thought and think it would be safest just to delete all embedded fonts (obfuscated and non-obfuscated) for the Mark I version. Whether it results in a significantly less useful utility in practical terms remains to be seen.

I'll post an alpha (non-plugin version) in this thread tomorrow with the hope that some of you will try it out on some of your own books and report back if there are any glaring errors or missed scrambling.

ETA: If its possible to 100% reliably determine which fonts are obfuscated perhaps we can leave them in but I'm not familiar enough with the details at the moment. Perhaps Kovid can offer some guidance.

Last edited by jackie_w; 10-17-2015 at 02:55 PM. Reason: obfuscated fonts
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Old 10-17-2015, 06:12 PM   #65
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@HarryT,

I do have a another question regarding digits 0-9 contained in the main text content.

Originally I left all digits unscrambled.
Pros - less confusion when clicking footnote hyperlinks and numeric TOC entries would match their numeric heading/footnote 'other end'.
Cons - copyright page would contain unscrambled ISBNs - which may be a dealbreaker

If digits need to be scrambled, which of the following would be most acceptable. Replace each digit with:
  1. a random digit (1 in 10 chance of not being scrambled)
  2. a digit guaranteed to be different from the correct one
  3. use a single digit everywhere, e.g. all digits displayed as zero
  4. replace all digits with a random alpha A-Z char
  5. something else I haven't thought of
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Old 10-17-2015, 06:16 PM   #66
HarryT
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I'd go for option 1 personally.
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Old 10-17-2015, 06:53 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
I'd go for option 1 personally.
OK, thanks, I'll use that for Mark I.
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Old 10-17-2015, 08:57 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Sorry for the delay in responding, but I wanted to talk to the rest of the moderating team first to ensure that I had my facts straight.

You can take this as official MR policy when I say that we have never permitted people to upload copyrighted material for diagnostic purposes, whether password-protected or otherwise. DiapDealer, who is a long-time moderator of the Sigil forum, tells me that in that forum they always make it absolutely clear to people who may be experiencing problems with books that they must not upload any copyrighted files (unless, of course, it's the author who is uploading it). Your statement that:



is simply untrue.

To reiterate, we never have, do not, and never will allow copyrighted books to be uploaded to MR without the copyright holder's permission, and the presence or absence of a password on the upload does not alter that policy. This is the policy of the moderating team, not the opinion of me or any other individual moderator.

Uploading a short sample of material is of course, "fair use", and is permissible.

I hope this clarifies the matter to everyone's satisfaction.
I appear to have been mistaken, sorry.

I'd just like to say, I am 99% sure I have seen people do this. I may be guilty of exaggerating how often, and I certainly can't bring to mind any instance of a moderator discussing it, truth be told -- so I am probably misremembering something at least.
(Perhaps I saw moderators active in the same thread, and mentally associated the two, and don't know the difference now, months or years later?)


I still don't see why there should be a problem, though.
And even more so why here should be a problem with a book that isn't password-protected, but irreversibly turned into gibberish.


EDIT: And I see the decision has been made that gibberish is acceptable.
So I suppose it is a good thing we now have a decent alternative. (Because again, I am pretty sure I have seen the password route taken, whether it was condoned/noticed, or not.)

Last edited by eschwartz; 10-17-2015 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 10-17-2015, 11:08 PM   #69
kovidgoyal
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@jackie_w: The container object will have an attribute named obfuscated_fonts that will allow you to know which fonts are obfuscated.
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Old 10-18-2015, 01:54 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie_w View Post
  1. a random digit (1 in 10 chance of not being scrambled)
  2. a digit guaranteed to be different from the correct one
  3. use a single digit everywhere, e.g. all digits displayed as zero
  4. replace all digits with a random alpha A-Z char
  5. something else I haven't thought of
From a cryptographic point of view, (2) is the worst one. Since then you have some information about the original digit left.
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Old 10-18-2015, 07:46 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie_w View Post
@HarryT,

I do have a another question regarding digits 0-9 contained in the main text content.

Originally I left all digits unscrambled.
Pros - less confusion when clicking footnote hyperlinks and numeric TOC entries would match their numeric heading/footnote 'other end'.
Cons - copyright page would contain unscrambled ISBNs - which may be a dealbreaker

If digits need to be scrambled, which of the following would be most acceptable. Replace each digit with:
  1. a random digit (1 in 10 chance of not being scrambled)
  2. a digit guaranteed to be different from the correct one
  3. use a single digit everywhere, e.g. all digits displayed as zero
  4. replace all digits with a random alpha A-Z char
  5. something else I haven't thought of
Could it be possible to use a * to indicate a hyperlink to a footnote/endnote? But if all other text in the book is scrambled, who could guess/know what is the original book though the digits were unscrambled to indicate footnotes/endnotes? If noone can know what is the original book even with the numbers of footnotes/endnotes unscrambled, to me is fair to maintain the original order.

Last edited by RbnJrg; 10-18-2015 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 10-18-2015, 08:32 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RbnJrg View Post
Could it be possible to use a * to indicate a hyperlink to a footnote/endnote? But if all other text in the book is scrambled, who could guess/know what is the original book though the digits were unscrambled to indicate footnotes/endnotes? If noone can know what is the original book even with the numbers of footnotes/endnotes unscrambled, to me is fair to maintain the original order.
It's difficult to see a moral objection to that (I've been wrong before, though) but it's not immediately obvious to me how to do it with the html parser. If the link was simple like:
<a href="...">1</a> it would be easy to do, but if there was lots of rats nesting like this
<a href="..."><span...> <sup ...><span ...>1</span> </sup></a>
then it would be harder to associate the 1 with the <a> tag rather than the innermost <span>. I'm not saying it's not possible, there's probably a 'parser nesting technique' well known to lxml parsing experts. I just don't know it. Always willing to be educated though
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Old 10-18-2015, 09:10 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie_w View Post
It's difficult to see a moral objection to that (I've been wrong before, though) but it's not immediately obvious to me how to do it with the html parser. If the link was simple like:
<a href="...">1</a> it would be easy to do, but if there was lots of rats nesting like this
<a href="..."><span...> <sup ...><span ...>1</span> </sup></a>
then it would be harder to associate the 1 with the <a> tag rather than the innermost <span>. I'm not saying it's not possible, there's probably a 'parser nesting technique' well known to lxml parsing experts. I just don't know it. Always willing to be educated though
Sounds like a "version X" enhancement . I should get the basic features sorted first and worry about the bells and whistles later on!
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Old 10-18-2015, 09:12 AM   #74
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I appear to have been mistaken, sorry.

I'd just like to say, I am 99% sure I have seen people do this. I may be guilty of exaggerating how often, and I certainly can't bring to mind any instance of a moderator discussing it, truth be told -- so I am probably misremembering something at least.
I'm not saying that people have never done it - they almost certainly have - but they would have been firmly asked not to do it again had it come to the attention of the moderating team .
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Old 10-18-2015, 09:45 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie_w View Post
It's difficult to see a moral objection to that (I've been wrong before, though) but it's not immediately obvious to me how to do it with the html parser. If the link was simple like:
<a href="...">1</a> it would be easy to do, but if there was lots of rats nesting like this
<a href="..."><span...> <sup ...><span ...>1</span> </sup></a>
then it would be harder to associate the 1 with the <a> tag rather than the innermost <span>.
Ok, I can understand that You started this thread as a "kobo thread" (thinking in Kobo books though your utility is useful for any ebook). Since ereaders now are supporting several epub3 features (ADE now has almost full support of epub3), maybe you could maintain the numbers unscrumbled when you find something like:

Code:
    <p>something <a epub:type="noteref" href="#fn01">1</a></p>
    …
    <aside id="fn01" epub:type="footnote">
        Some footnote content
    </aside>
In those cases, is doubtless that numbers belong to a footnote. What do you say?
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