The Page 99 Test

[lance@page99test]

Originally Posted by altworld

Just some quick thoughts...

(1) Unable to direct traffic straight to my page 99 excerpt making it useless as a promo tool as I couldn't post a link to it from my blog (unless I missed something).

(2) Don't like having to sign in to view pages, sign in to leave a rating yes, but to view? That will just drive people away, no one is that free with their information anymore.

(3) Interesting as a writing tool as a mistake was picked up, I got kicked around a lot on it because my page 99 dumps you into a middle of a transition conversation, and doesn't say anything about the book.

(4) What was maddening was getting voted down by people saying it wasn't their genre, even when its clearly marked as Paranormal.
Nick D

Thanks, Nick... love your candid feedback. I've numbered your comments so that I can address them clearly.

1. In order to keep the feedback unbiased, we currently make it very difficult for writers to send their friends and family to their page 99. We do this because we will soon be launching a "Best 99s" page for each genre -- so we have to minimize the potential for 'gaming' the system. However, we will be building out a way for you to send people directly to your page 99 once the rating period has ended (even if it doesn't make the Best 99s page!).

2. All we have right now is feedback-based functionality -- there's nothing else to do on the site, really (yet!). To make things easier, we will be adding Facebook and Twitter login options so that you don't have to create a new account on our site -- and we already offer the "Remember me" option so that you never have to login again. As we add more browsable content to the site, the need to login will go away (but it'll always be there for the feedback portion of the experience).

3. We're looking into giving writers a way to 'set up' their page 99 or give a book synopsis -- so that readers have more context.

4. We've tried to make it clearer to readers that they should select genres before rating -- the default is all genres. We could look at forcing users to select genres as a first activity... we'll continue to monitor this issue closely.

In addition, within the next week (for new page 99s added to the site), you'll be able to include a link to your Twitter handle so that you can build a following of readers from your Page 99.

Again, we appreciate the feedback. We want to make the site awesome for writers and readers.

Lance

[M T McGuire]

Originally Posted by lance@page99test

In order to keep the feedback unbiased, we currently make it very difficult for writers to send their friends and family to their page 99. We do this because we will soon be launching a "Best 99s" page for each genre -- so we have to minimize the potential for 'gaming' the system. However, we will be building out a way for you to send people directly to your page 99 once the rating period has ended (even if it doesn't make the Best 99s page!).

Again, we appreciate the feedback. We want to make the site awesome for writers and readers.

Lance

In a stroke you make the site have a point for people like myself, who do not have the time to approach the business of getting reciprocal reads from other page99 users as a full time job (nice change from sites like youwriteon or authonomy).

To someone in my boat, with a sequel to write, a house to run and a two year old to look after, that seems fairer! Page 99 in my book isn't the most interesting but at least it gets to stand or fall on the merits of my writing rather than the amount of spare time I have at my disposal. Delighted to see my book escape all that.

Cheers

MTM

[altworld]

Originally Posted by lance@page99test

Thanks, Nick... love your candid feedback. I've numbered your comments so that I can address them clearly.

1. In order to keep the feedback unbiased, we currently make it very difficult for writers to send their friends and family to their page 99. We do this because we will soon be launching a "Best 99s" page for each genre -- so we have to minimize the potential for 'gaming' the system. However, we will be building out a way for you to send people directly to your page 99 once the rating period has ended (even if it doesn't make the Best 99s page!).

2. All we have right now is feedback-based functionality -- there's nothing else to do on the site, really (yet!). To make things easier, we will be adding Facebook and Twitter login options so that you don't have to create a new account on our site -- and we already offer the "Remember me" option so that you never have to login again. As we add more browsable content to the site, the need to login will go away (but it'll always be there for the feedback portion of the experience).

3. We're looking into giving writers a way to 'set up' their page 99 or give a book synopsis -- so that readers have more context.

4. We've tried to make it clearer to readers that they should select genres before rating -- the default is all genres. We could look at forcing users to select genres as a first activity... we'll continue to monitor this issue closely.

In addition, within the next week (for new page 99s added to the site), you'll be able to include a link to your Twitter handle so that you can build a following of readers from your Page 99.

Again, we appreciate the feedback. We want to make the site awesome for writers and readers.

Lance

Just going to address point one, even though I still believe you should make page viewing open and rating sign up only.

If I am going to push traffic to your website I am going to want people to land on my page first. That way I get a direct benefit from pushing traffic to you, as you know traffic is precious and we all selfish where we want to send it too, if we want to send it off site at all. At the moment saying go to this website and then asking my traffic to sign up, then search for my page, before they can do anything isn't benefiting them. It isn't about pushing friends or family there because if people want to 'game' the system that is already easy to do.

If you have open read with sign up to add ratings, with links directly to author 99pages there is a mutual traffic benefit. I can send traffic to you, my traffic gets to read another page of my novel, and rate it if they want to sign up to your website.

[M T McGuire]

Originally Posted by altworld

Just going to address point one, even though I still believe you should make page viewing open and rating sign up only.

If I am going to push traffic to your website I am going to want people to land on my page first. That way I get a direct benefit from pushing traffic to you, as you know traffic is precious and we all selfish where we want to send it too, if we want to send it off site at all. At the moment saying go to this website and then asking my traffic to sign up, then search for my page, before they can do anything isn't benefiting them. It isn't about pushing friends or family there because if people want to 'game' the system that is already easy to do.

If you have open read with sign up to add ratings, with links directly to author 99pages there is a mutual traffic benefit. I can send traffic to you, my traffic gets to read another page of my novel, and rate it if they want to sign up to your website.

I appreciate what you're saying here but again, what you asking is still, basically, 'can I load the results'. It isn't about asking your fans to go there, read your page and sign up if they want to vote for you, it's about seeing how well your writing stands on its own, among people who may be unfamiliar with it and you.

Now, clearly, this is going to appeal more to a debut author than a seasoned pro but... If the site is random and the page 99s are genuine then your work will stand or fall on the quality of your writing rather than on how big your tribe is or much time you have to drive traffic to the site. This is completely different to any of the other sites where success is are all about how many friends/fans or much time the author submitting has.

Surely if you 'win' the random page 99 way, you get a 'genuine' result. Don't you want that? Because I sure as hell know I do.

Lance, if you're still reading, please don't be tempted to change the matrix. Trust me, in this respect, Page 99 is about the only thing approaching a level playing field out there.

Anyway, as every wine buff knows, you get the most interesting results from a blind tasting.

Cheers

MTM

[mjhudston]

it's a bit of a bugger for us short story writers, mine does not go up to page 99.

[ASparrow]

Originally Posted by M T McGuire

Surely if you 'win' the random page 99 way, you get a 'genuine' result. Don't you want that? Because I sure as hell know I do.

Lance, if you're still reading, please don't be tempted to change the matrix. Trust me, in this respect, Page 99 is about the only thing approaching a level playing field out there.

Anyway, as every wine buff knows, you get the most interesting results from a blind tasting.

Cheers

MTM

Agreed. Keep it random and blind. There are enough popularity contests out here already (Authonomy)

[joycedb]

Originally Posted by ASparrow

Agreed. Keep it random and blind. There are enough popularity contests out here already (Authonomy)

So that's why no one will even try my books. Kind of like competing for office in high school.

Joyce

[ASparrow]

Originally Posted by joycedb

So that's why no one will even try my books. Kind of like competing for office in high school.

Joyce

Have you tried submitting it to a review blog, like Red Adept's? http://redadeptreviews.com/
She's very frank but fair, and even less than perfect ratings are said to boost sales by increasing visibility.

But Authonomy, yeah, is dysfunctional. Their recent revamping of their rating system, I fear has only made things worse.

[James_Wilde]

Originally Posted by mjhudston

it's a bit of a bugger for us short story writers, mine does not go up to page 99.

Cycle through it, MJ, like we did with eeny meeny miney mo. If your short is 12 pages long, after two cycles you'll be on page 24, after 8 you'll be on page 96, so you'll send page 3.

[altworld]

Originally Posted by M T McGuire

I appreciate what you're saying here but again, what you asking is still, basically, 'can I load the results'. It isn't about asking your fans to go there, read your page and sign up if they want to vote for you, it's about seeing how well your writing stands on its own, among people who may be unfamiliar with it and you.

Now, clearly, this is going to appeal more to a debut author than a seasoned pro but... If the site is random and the page 99s are genuine then your work will stand or fall on the quality of your writing rather than on how big your tribe is or much time you have to drive traffic to the site. This is completely different to any of the other sites where success is are all about how many friends/fans or much time the author submitting has.

Surely if you 'win' the random page 99 way, you get a 'genuine' result. Don't you want that? Because I sure as hell know I do.

Lance, if you're still reading, please don't be tempted to change the matrix. Trust me, in this respect, Page 99 is about the only thing approaching a level playing field out there.

Anyway, as every wine buff knows, you get the most interesting results from a blind tasting.

Cheers

MTM

I have a tribe? When did that happen?

At the very least it should be open to read, and sign up to rate. This gives greater accessibility to the casual surfer, which will also increase page views and traffic dramatically.

And yes, even though page99test makes it impossible to land on your page I have pushed the website on several different websites. Wasn't aware it was a competition though, just a tool for writing and nothing more than that.

Load result... Phtt...

Edit - Just had a thought if you want a genuine result that is totally unbaised drop the genre catagories. The page then stands or falls on the writing alone, and not if its the readers favorite genre. Certainly would stop those useless its not my genre so I am voting it down entries and would fall into your blind tasting catagory.

[M T McGuire]

Originally Posted by altworld

I have a tribe? When did that happen?

At the very least it should be open to read, and sign up to rate. This gives greater accessibility to the casual surfer, which will also increase page views and traffic dramatically.

And yes, even though page99test makes it impossible to land on your page I have pushed the website on several different websites. Wasn't aware it was a competition though, just a tool for writing and nothing more than that.

Load result... Phtt...

Edit - Just had a thought if you want a genuine result that is totally unbaised drop the genre catagories. The page then stands or falls on the writing alone, and not if its the readers favorite genre. Certainly would stop those useless its not my genre so I am voting it down entries and would fall into your blind tasting catagory.

Ah now I agree with your edit about dropping the categories. But I still think that Page 99 is an academic exercise to help you find out about your writing. If you get lauded at the end of your month THEN it becomes a marketing tool.

As for the rest, it still sounds as if you wanted to be able to send friends, family, readers, admirers to your page so they could vote up your writing. And that's not loading the result? How? Explain please? Oh yeh, and not forgetting the 'phtt ' two fingers to you too!

This is the model employed by sites like Authonomy. Now, perhaps I'm biassed by the other sites I've seen. Take Authonomy, it's a great site but don't think writing a great book will get you anywhere on there. The books that make it to the top of the rankings (and get read by a Harper Collins editor) are written by people who treat getting there as a full time job. Quality comes into it but it isn't the final arbiter.

There are lots of other sites which are similar to authonomy; ciao, dooyoo, youwriteon - all employ the same basic model - you treat it as a full time job, you succeed. There's nothing wrong with that it's just that page 99 is the first site I've encountered that is anything approaching writing driven and truly random/impartial.

What bemuses me is that you seem to think that's a bad thing and that I'm a git for being jaded and cynical about the others. I don't really get why? Can't you people of leisure leave the rest of us time-strapped souls one site where we've a chance of succeeding on merit alone? Sure, some of the comments are barking but it's fairer than anything else I've seen.

Everyone wants feedback but you get that, too, via the random route. You don't need to start drumming up support for your page and the minute you do; and can the site becomes about your sales skills, your ability to drum up votes and the spare time you have avaible to do so instead of your writing. I'm not exactly PG Woodhouse but the quality of my writing is all I've got and on page99, for the first time in my online experience, that puts me on a level footing with everyone else.

Cheers

MTM

[DavidRM]

I pulled my pages from the site. The feedback wasn't useful, and there was no way to directly link the page to something useful, like an Amazon "Buy Now" page.

It was an interesting experiment for me, but:
* The site is only marginally useful for critique (with only one page, and a page in the middle of the book, you don't get generally useful feedback);
* The site is even less useful for marketing purposes (no links for author page or Amazon or anything).

Maybe it'll mature into something useful. I'll check in every so often.

-David

[D.A. Boulter]

I put up one page 99, but found it less than useful. And, looking at other page 99s, including some from books upon my shelves, as well as the comments I've received, I've come across one of its big weaknesses: Lack of context.

A seemingly mundane sentence, which page 99 readers will (rightly) see as boring can have immense emotional power if the reader knew the context. I picked up 5 books from my shelf--books that I've read upwards of 5 times each. Page 99 failed to excite me in 3 of the 5. Looking strictly at page 99 from the point of view of a newcomer to the book and author, 60% of my favourites failed the test--I would not turn the page and read on.

And, thus, in my opinion, Ford Maddox Ford and his page 99 theorem also fails the test.

[kcmay]

I agree about its usefulness. People often state they're confused about what's happening because they're reading page 99 and have no context, or they don't like the genre and vote based on that and not based on the writing. The page99test doesn't consistently give a writer feedback on whether the writing is good.

[M T McGuire]

Originally Posted by kcmay

I agree about its usefulness. People often state they're confused about what's happening because they're reading page 99 and have no context, or they don't like the genre and vote based on that and not based on the writing. The page99test doesn't consistently give a writer feedback on whether the writing is good.

That's true but I still think you get enough to know.

Cheers

MTM