What stops you from buying ebooks - Page 3

Clancy_s · 06-19-2010, 07:44 PM

Mostly what stops me buying ebooks is availability (I'm in Australia) and to a degree, price.

DRM is a distant third, but when I do buy DRM'd books I strip it first thing, so my calibrary will work with any reader I care to use.

Freeshadow · 06-19-2010, 11:18 PM

the "MUCH cheaper" option mentioned isn't blocked by ebooksellers but big pbook sellers. they can put pressure on producers making both versions (e and p) just by whispering:

"if you sell the files cheaper than n% (usually max. 15) of the HC price as long as only HC is out OR the Softcover price (if soft is already on sale) just be prepared to have enough storage because we' ll send you the whole load (of all stuff) we currently ordered back." (and wait for re-fund)
with SC they just rip off the front cover and send it back as unsold-evidence.

Now make a guess what a publisher does, knowing, said big reseller has 7.000 of copies each of his last 3-5 recent softcover print-runs...

DRM is too much of the (wrong) medicine.
The problem with so-called DRM is its brokenness-by-design:

It makes certain actions more difficult to accomplish. The problem within this approach is that the same actions may be needed to fair use as well as misuse of the rights by their reciever. The difference lies in the motivation not the actions.
Since application of DRM won't physically stop the abusers from their doings, it is useless.

Keeping in mind that it will, at the same time make it more complicated and/or illegal (depending of the laws they are subjects to) for rightful and non-abusive owners to fully make use of their fair-use rights DRM is not only useless but simply backfiring by "punishing" the honest buyers i.e. those people actually being supportive as well to the publisher as to the author.

In contrary to that using personalisation/media uniquement, e.g.

watermarking a PDF
adding checksums to the metadata, of the particular media
etc.

The argument that doing so, is pointless since this marks can be removed is pointless, because that applies to DRM equally.

The key is the addition of such marks together with the obligation of the legal reciever to keep and overtake them during transformation or excerption-making processes as allowed by fair use wouldn't hinder fair use itself. A legit owner would have no need then to remove the marking and break the said agreement/license.

in contrary to a fair and honest user, an abuser would have broken these agreement since personification means traceability.
but by doing so he would give evidence of his illegal motivation and as such leaving the protective faire use zone of acting
R
emember: it is the motive of the actions that matters.

Said evidence is a sufficient entitlement to undertake of legal prosecutive countermeasures.

Poppa1956 · 06-19-2010, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SameOldStory

You, at least, have very good excuses.

Thank you. I'll continue to hone them, or I would if I weren't so lazy.

pwalker8 · 06-20-2010, 07:11 AM

I'm in the same boat as some of the others here. The number one thing that keeps me from buying is availability. If it's not available for sale, I can't buy it. There are a lot of books that I would buy if they were just available. After that, it's a sliding scale. If it's a favored author, then I will buy it even if it were at hardback prices and in a format where I can't break the DRM. After that, it's a sliding scale. I'm a lot more willing to try a new author if the book is available at paperback prices rather than hardback prices. After that it's format and drm. I rarely buy PDF. If it's in a DRM format I can't break, then odds are I won't buy it anymore. At one time, I would, but there just isn't a reason to anymore.

astra · 06-20-2010, 08:58 AM

Q.
What keeps you from buying ebooks

A.
a) DRM
b) Price

I am not buying DRM-infected ebooks.
I would buy only DRM-free ebooks for a price that doesn't exceed paperback edition on Amazon, which means no more than £6.

Krystian Galaj · 06-20-2010, 09:28 AM

I think there should be a way to pay the author with one click at the moment when I'm totally immersed in the book, and thinking only "what a great read". This option was impossible in the past, but is quite doable on current ereaders. Then I would only regret some authors I read are already dead and my money won't do them much good.

SameOldStory · 06-20-2010, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I'm a lot more willing to try a new author if the book is available at paperback prices rather than hardback prices. After that it's format and drm. I rarely buy PDF. If it's in a DRM format I can't break, then odds are I won't buy it anymore. At one time, I would, but there just isn't a reason to anymore.

With so many good new writers around, I no longer feel much need to buy DRM. And by the time that I do buy those few books, things will have changed.

It's like the publishers are covering their eyes and refusing to see that the old way is no longer valid. Meantime they continue to walk towards a cliff.

I'm sorry about leaving geo restrictions out of the list. This was my first poll and I found out that you can't re-edit the poll after you have created it. It may be possible, but I didn't see it there.

Geo restrictions cause problems over here too. There are ebooks in the UK that I can't get here.

PS- I have no idea why some questions are italicized.

omk3 · 06-20-2010, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SameOldStory

PS- I have no idea why some questions are italicized.

They appear so to you, because you voted for them. Others see different questions italicised.

SameOldStory · 06-20-2010, 10:02 AM

Now I can die happy. Thanks O.

Crowl · 06-20-2010, 10:12 AM

I'm guessing the original poster is from the usa due to the poll leaving out geographical restrictions, they are probably a much bigger impediment to buying ebooks than drm which is merely a stupid and needless annoyance.

EowynCarter · 06-20-2010, 10:38 AM

During the switch to agency model, some e-book disappeared into thin air.
UK version was the only one available to me. But I wanted the better formated US one. So I had to lie about where I live.

Lemurion · 06-20-2010, 10:45 AM

The biggest thing that stops me from buying ebooks is disposable income: With three kids at home, my mad money often drops away to almost nothing (especially as I already have plenty to read anyway - and just want new for the shiny factor).

Personally I think a fair price for the ebook of a mass-market paperback is $5-6 when the paperback costs $8. I think that's reasonable.

As for DRM my biggest problem comes from the fact that it makes certain forms of fair use which in theory it explicitly allows effectively impossible without circumventing it.

I normally read on one of two devices - either my Sony 505 or my Motorola Droid - both allow me to read DRM ebooks, and the licenses for the DRM ebooks I buy allow me to read them on multiple devices - but I can't read the same DRM ebook on both devices even though I am explicitly allowed to do so.

The only DRM format I can read on the Droid is Ereader, the Sony can read ADE Epub, PDF or LRF: Neither device can read the other's DRM formats. (I can read Epub on the Droid - but not with DRM.) Ereader lets me use as many devices as I want, but the Sony doesn't support it; I have open "slots" for ADE, but the Droid doesn't support that.

This is what I hate about DRM - it doesn't even let me do what it explicitly says I can do.

SameOldStory · 06-20-2010, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowl

I'm guessing the original poster is from the usa due to the poll leaving out geographical restrictions, they are probably a much bigger impediment to buying ebooks than drm which is merely a stupid and needless annoyance.

Guilty as charged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SameOldStory

I'm sorry about leaving geo restrictions out of the list. This was my first poll and I found out that you can't re-edit the poll after you have created it. It may be possible, but I didn't see it there.

Geo restrictions cause problems over here too. There are ebooks in the UK that I can't get here.

SameOldStory · 06-20-2010, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemurion

The biggest thing that stops me from buying ebooks is disposable income: With three kids at home, my mad money often drops away to almost nothing (especially as I already have plenty to read anyway - and just want new for the shiny factor).

Personally I think a fair price for the ebook of a mass-market paperback is $5-6 when the paperback costs $8. I think that's reasonable.

As for DRM my biggest problem comes from the fact that it makes certain forms of fair use which in theory it explicitly allows effectively impossible without circumventing it.

I normally read on one of two devices - either my Sony 505 or my Motorola Droid - both allow me to read DRM ebooks, and the licenses for the DRM ebooks I buy allow me to read them on multiple devices - but I can't read the same DRM ebook on both devices even though I am explicitly allowed to do so.

The only DRM format I can read on the Droid is Ereader, the Sony can read ADE Epub, PDF or LRF: Neither device can read the other's DRM formats. (I can read Epub on the Droid - but not with DRM.) Ereader lets me use as many devices as I want, but the Sony doesn't support it; I have open "slots" for ADE, but the Droid doesn't support that.

This is what I hate about DRM - it doesn't even let me do what it explicitly says I can do.

On top of that it makes you a criminal for trying to do what you should be able to do. The DRM people (books, movies, & music) want to make it a world wide/international crime if you secede.

Blue Tyson · 06-20-2010, 12:02 PM

At the moment: publishers, authors, agents, and retailers.

View Poll Results: What keeps you from buying ebooks
I think that DRM is OK.	11	6.75%
I think that DRM is bad.	93	57.06%
I think that DRM books are harmful to the public interest.	76	46.63%
I would strip DRM from any book that I buy.	75	46.01%
I will not buy a book with DRM.	38	23.31%
I will not pay for a DRM book.	30	18.40%
I have frequently shared paper books, and do share ebooks.	29	17.79%
I have occasionally shared paper books, and would like to share ebooks.	47	28.83%
I rarely share books, but would like that option.	39	23.93%
I never share books.	11	6.75%
I would buy a non-DRM book for $10.	50	30.67%
I would buy a DRM book for less than $5.	35	21.47%
I would only buy a DRM book if it was much less than $5.	22	13.50%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 163. You may not vote on this poll

06-19-2010, 11:18 PM	#32
Freeshadow temp. out of service Posts: 2,792 Karma: 24285242 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Duisburg (DE) Device: PB 623	the "MUCH cheaper" option mentioned isn't blocked by ebooksellers but big pbook sellers. they can put pressure on producers making both versions (e and p) just by whispering: "if you sell the files cheaper than n% (usually max. 15) of the HC price as long as only HC is out OR the Softcover price (if soft is already on sale) just be prepared to have enough storage because we' ll send you the whole load (of all stuff) we currently ordered back." (and wait for re-fund) with SC they just rip off the front cover and send it back as unsold-evidence. Now make a guess what a publisher does, knowing, said big reseller has 7.000 of copies each of his last 3-5 recent softcover print-runs... DRM is too much of the (wrong) medicine. The problem with so-called DRM is its brokenness-by-design: It makes certain actions more difficult to accomplish. The problem within this approach is that the same actions may be needed to fair use as well as misuse of the rights by their reciever. The difference lies in the motivation not the actions. Since application of DRM won't physically stop the abusers from their doings, it is useless. Keeping in mind that it will, at the same time make it more complicated and/or illegal (depending of the laws they are subjects to) for rightful and non-abusive owners to fully make use of their fair-use rights DRM is not only useless but simply backfiring by "punishing" the honest buyers i.e. those people actually being supportive as well to the publisher as to the author. In contrary to that using personalisation/media uniquement, e.g. watermarking a PDF adding checksums to the metadata, of the particular media etc. The argument that doing so, is pointless since this marks can be removed is pointless, because that applies to DRM equally. The key is the addition of such marks together with the obligation of the legal reciever to keep and overtake them during transformation or excerption-making processes as allowed by fair use wouldn't hinder fair use itself. A legit owner would have no need then to remove the marking and break the said agreement/license. in contrary to a fair and honest user, an abuser would have broken these agreement since personification means traceability. but by doing so he would give evidence of his illegal motivation and as such leaving the protective faire use zone of acting R emember: it is the motive of the actions that matters. Said evidence is a sufficient entitlement to undertake of legal prosecutive countermeasures.

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06-19-2010, 07:44 PM	#31
Clancy_s Zealot Posts: 133 Karma: 1010308 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Newcastle, NSW Device: Kobo Glo HD	Mostly what stops me buying ebooks is availability (I'm in Australia) and to a degree, price. DRM is a distant third, but when I do buy DRM'd books I strip it first thing, so my calibrary will work with any reader I care to use.

06-20-2010, 07:11 AM	#34
pwalker8 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,195 Karma: 70314280 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Kobo Aura, Amazon paperwhite, Sony PRS-T2	I'm in the same boat as some of the others here. The number one thing that keeps me from buying is availability. If it's not available for sale, I can't buy it. There are a lot of books that I would buy if they were just available. After that, it's a sliding scale. If it's a favored author, then I will buy it even if it were at hardback prices and in a format where I can't break the DRM. After that, it's a sliding scale. I'm a lot more willing to try a new author if the book is available at paperback prices rather than hardback prices. After that it's format and drm. I rarely buy PDF. If it's in a DRM format I can't break, then odds are I won't buy it anymore. At one time, I would, but there just isn't a reason to anymore.

06-20-2010, 08:58 AM	#35
astra The Introvert Posts: 8,307 Karma: 1000077497 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: United Kingdom Device: Sony Reader PRS-650 & 505 & 500	Q. What keeps you from buying ebooks A. a) DRM b) Price I am not buying DRM-infected ebooks. I would buy only DRM-free ebooks for a price that doesn't exceed paperback edition on Amazon, which means no more than £6.

06-20-2010, 09:28 AM	#36
Krystian Galaj Guru Posts: 820 Karma: 11012 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Warsaw, Poland Device: Bookeen Cybook	I think there should be a way to pay the author with one click at the moment when I'm totally immersed in the book, and thinking only "what a great read". This option was impossible in the past, but is quite doable on current ereaders. Then I would only regret some authors I read are already dead and my money won't do them much good.

06-20-2010, 10:02 AM	#39
SameOldStory My True Self Posts: 3,126 Karma: 66242098 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Trantor, Galactic Center Device: Galaxy Tab 2 7.0	Now I can die happy. Thanks O.

06-20-2010, 10:12 AM	#40
Crowl Wizard Posts: 1,340 Karma: 1160346 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Southport, GB Device: Kindle Voyage, PW Signature edition	I'm guessing the original poster is from the usa due to the poll leaving out geographical restrictions, they are probably a much bigger impediment to buying ebooks than drm which is merely a stupid and needless annoyance.

06-20-2010, 10:38 AM	#41
EowynCarter Wizard Posts: 4,332 Karma: 4000000 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Paris Device: Cybooks; Sony PRS-T1	During the switch to agency model, some e-book disappeared into thin air. UK version was the only one available to me. But I wanted the better formated US one. So I had to lie about where I live.

06-20-2010, 10:45 AM	#42
Lemurion eReader Posts: 2,750 Karma: 4968470 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Note 5; PW3; Nook HD+; ChuWi Hi12; iPad	The biggest thing that stops me from buying ebooks is disposable income: With three kids at home, my mad money often drops away to almost nothing (especially as I already have plenty to read anyway - and just want new for the shiny factor). Personally I think a fair price for the ebook of a mass-market paperback is $5-6 when the paperback costs $8. I think that's reasonable. As for DRM my biggest problem comes from the fact that it makes certain forms of fair use which in theory it explicitly allows effectively impossible without circumventing it. I normally read on one of two devices - either my Sony 505 or my Motorola Droid - both allow me to read DRM ebooks, and the licenses for the DRM ebooks I buy allow me to read them on multiple devices - but I can't read the same DRM ebook on both devices even though I am explicitly allowed to do so. The only DRM format I can read on the Droid is Ereader, the Sony can read ADE Epub, PDF or LRF: Neither device can read the other's DRM formats. (I can read Epub on the Droid - but not with DRM.) Ereader lets me use as many devices as I want, but the Sony doesn't support it; I have open "slots" for ADE, but the Droid doesn't support that. This is what I hate about DRM - it doesn't even let me do what it explicitly says I can do.

06-20-2010, 12:02 PM	#45
Blue Tyson Blue Captain Posts: 1,595 Karma: 5000236 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Australia Device: Kindle Keyboard 3G,Huawei Ideos X3,Kobo Mini	At the moment: publishers, authors, agents, and retailers.

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