Could the Kindle spark book piracy?

Alexander Turcic · 12-06-2007, 09:51 AM

Indeed a valid question, asked by Mathew Ingram of Globe and Mail and Michael Arrington of TechCrunch. Their argument goes like this: The Amazon Kindle does not only support the proprietary Mobipocket e-book format, but also other popular formats such as text or Word. Pirated e-books found on Torrent sites (and elsewhere) could easily be converted into one of the supported formats. In a next step, the filthy pirate could use Amazon's Whispernet or USB connectivity to move these e-books onto his device.

Heck, who knows, maybe Whispernet could even turn into some kind of Darknet where people start swapping pirated e-books like mad. But somehow I doubt this. Have you ever heard of a pirate who is willing to pay $0.10 for every swapped file?

So what do you think? Could the Kindle spark book piracy in near future?

Globe and Mail: Could the Kindle spark book piracy?
TechCrunch: Stealing Books For The Kindle Is Trivially Easy

kacir · 12-06-2007, 10:00 AM

The pool does not ask a good question

The legally purchased content will experience even bigger boost then piracy, because it is much easier to buy a book now than to look for it on the darknet. Also the number of legally available books has increased and the price has dropped.

Nate the great · 12-06-2007, 10:05 AM

I don't see how the Kindle could cause an increase in piracy. Piracy often involves rape, murder, arson and grand theft. The Kindle is just a small electronic gadget.

I don't see how the two are related.

Alexander Turcic · 12-06-2007, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kacir

The pool does not ask a good question

The legally purchased content will experience even bigger boost then piracy, because it is much easier to buy a book now than to look for it on the darknet. Also the number of legally available books has increased and the price has dropped.

Good point. I quickly edited the second poll choice to take this into account.

jasonkchapman · 12-06-2007, 10:32 AM

By lowering the barrier to obtaining legal content, the Kindle is much more likely to reduce infringement than it is to increase it.

Having said that, it is inevitable that infringing material will be converted. I wouldn't be surprised if some of it showed up on Amazon through the self-publication facility. At that point, Amazon is going to be forced into the position of gatekeeper, either by removing offending material at the request of publishers, or by scanning materials at conversion time.

vivaldirules · 12-06-2007, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander Turcic

... the filthy pirate...

Indeed! Let's string him from the yard arm, whatever that is! I think Nate's right. Maybe we should just refer to him as a filthy thief. It's accurate, I think, and would perhaps not turn as many people off. We could even drop the "filthy."

secretsubscribe · 12-06-2007, 10:50 AM

$0.10 per Whispernet file transfer aside, if (big if) we see the Kindle become the ereader of choice among the general population we might see a lot of sharing between friends, maybe even a few dark-Whispernet vendors selling their latest scanned book to whoever drop a few bucks in their paypal account.
But it seems a lot easier to format ebooks for kindle and share them back the old fashioned way.
Popularity of any ebook device might spark more piracy. Now sure Whispernet itself will spur that on.

mdibella · 12-06-2007, 11:03 AM

EBooks are already available for download, if you know where to look. This is not new. Some of these sites have been around for years.

My own feeling has always been, if I own the book in print format, I don't feel guilty about downloading it in ebook format for easier carrying-around.

I would also point out that even though so many people have iPods (or other mp3 players), and even though pirated mp3 audiobooks can be found all over the net, publishers are still making money selling them. Why would ebooks be any different?

NatCh · 12-06-2007, 11:11 AM

I voted "No" because as I see it, Kindle is seeking to make e-books so accessible that the average Joe will never look anywhere else for books. The demographic Amazon has targeted isn't really technically inclined enough to go plumbing the depths of the darknet. That's not a dig at Kindle users, just an observation of Amazon's marketing strategy. I do realize that a lot of the Kindle owners around here are quite tech-savvy, but I think that Amazon has positioned Kindle to appeal mostly to less tech-savvy folks than we tend get hereabouts.

Because of that, I don't see e-book boot-leggers -- "book-leggers," if you will -- being very much affected by the Kindle. Sure they make mobi versions of their offerings, but if most of the folks using Kindles never even know they can go looking for them ....

DaleDe · 12-06-2007, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate the great

I don't see how the Kindle could cause an increase in piracy. Piracy often involves rape, murder, arson and grand theft. The Kindle is just a small electronic gadget.

I don't see how the two are related.

well, do you like the term forgery better? It is likely closer to the mark.

Dale

joblack · 12-06-2007, 11:24 AM

The iLiad and Sony Reader are supporting piracy even more. They support all the nice open formats. But the industry should shut up - they´re always complaining, but the bosses are driving in big cars ...

AlexC · 12-06-2007, 11:34 AM

Likely it will increase illegal copying/sharing, but only because its release will have driven the number of dedicated devices in the hands of people up substantially. Some, when finding that their favorite book, e.g., Harry Potter, isn't available through legit channels will go off to their handy torrent search engine and grab a copy. This doesn't seem too earth shattering... just human nature.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 12-06-2007, 11:54 AM

Tough question. On one hand, it's easy enough to get Amazon books for the Kindle, so piracy will not be supported by that.

On the other hand, there are always the books Amazon doesn't carry (and make no mistake, there's plenty of those). If a Kindle reader is looking for such a book, they might find it on the darknet, thereby supporting piracy. And if Kindle does well in the market, there will be more customers potentially looking through that darknet material for hard-to-find books.

Finally, Kindle owners might want to convert printed books they already own into Kindle books, a sort of "back-up" craze, which they (naturally) will expect they shouldn't have to pay for, and will get them free from darknet.

I think the Kindle itself won't necessarily foster piracy... but the growing number of e-book users, coupled with the (lack of) variety of e-books available to Kindle owners, just might.

FYI: I didn't vote, because my feelings are somewhere in the middle here.

Nate the great · 12-06-2007, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

well, do you like the term forgery better? It is likely closer to the mark.

Dale

I prefer the term copyright infringement. It is the mark.

I am tired of the misuse of the term piracy to describe what is, for the most part, petty theft.

Penforhire · 12-06-2007, 12:01 PM

I say yes but not because of any feature other than increased user base. There is nothing intrinsically easier about placing a pirated e-book on the Kindle versus, say, the Sony reader. However more people using readers means a greater number of pirates, assuming pirate-distribution is flat across all types of readers.

(we need a pirate smiley)

View Poll Results: Could the Kindle spark book piracy?
Yes, book piracy will get a boost thanks to successful Kindle sales	26	20.16%
On the contrary, since it's now even easier and cheaper to purchase e-books	46	35.66%
No, there won't be any change.	57	44.19%
Voters: 129. You may not vote on this poll

12-06-2007, 09:51 AM	#1
Alexander Turcic Fully Converged Posts: 18,163 Karma: 14021202 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Switzerland Device: Too many to count here.	Could the Kindle spark book piracy? Indeed a valid question, asked by Mathew Ingram of Globe and Mail and Michael Arrington of TechCrunch. Their argument goes like this: The Amazon Kindle does not only support the proprietary Mobipocket e-book format, but also other popular formats such as text or Word. Pirated e-books found on Torrent sites (and elsewhere) could easily be converted into one of the supported formats. In a next step, the filthy pirate could use Amazon's Whispernet or USB connectivity to move these e-books onto his device. Heck, who knows, maybe Whispernet could even turn into some kind of Darknet where people start swapping pirated e-books like mad. But somehow I doubt this. Have you ever heard of a pirate who is willing to pay $0.10 for every swapped file? So what do you think? Could the Kindle spark book piracy in near future? Globe and Mail: Could the Kindle spark book piracy? TechCrunch: Stealing Books For The Kindle Is Trivially Easy

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12-06-2007, 10:00 AM	#2
kacir Wizard Posts: 3,450 Karma: 10484861 Join Date: May 2006 Device: PocketBook 360, before it was Sony Reader, cassiopeia A-20	The pool does not ask a good question The legally purchased content will experience even bigger boost then piracy, because it is much easier to buy a book now than to look for it on the darknet. Also the number of legally available books has increased and the price has dropped.

12-06-2007, 10:05 AM	#3
Nate the great Sir Penguin of Edinburgh Posts: 12,375 Karma: 23555235 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: DC Metro area Device: Shake a stick plus 1	I don't see how the Kindle could cause an increase in piracy. Piracy often involves rape, murder, arson and grand theft. The Kindle is just a small electronic gadget. I don't see how the two are related.

12-06-2007, 10:32 AM	#5
jasonkchapman Guru Posts: 767 Karma: 2347 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: NYC Device: Sony Reader, nook, Droid, nookColor, nookTablet	By lowering the barrier to obtaining legal content, the Kindle is much more likely to reduce infringement than it is to increase it. Having said that, it is inevitable that infringing material will be converted. I wouldn't be surprised if some of it showed up on Amazon through the self-publication facility. At that point, Amazon is going to be forced into the position of gatekeeper, either by removing offending material at the request of publishers, or by scanning materials at conversion time.

12-06-2007, 10:50 AM	#7
secretsubscribe Enthusiast Posts: 26 Karma: 11777 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Brooklyn Device: PRS-500,Treo 750, Archos 605 Wifi	$0.10 per Whispernet file transfer aside, if (big if) we see the Kindle become the ereader of choice among the general population we might see a lot of sharing between friends, maybe even a few dark-Whispernet vendors selling their latest scanned book to whoever drop a few bucks in their paypal account. But it seems a lot easier to format ebooks for kindle and share them back the old fashioned way. Popularity of any ebook device might spark more piracy. Now sure Whispernet itself will spur that on.

12-06-2007, 11:03 AM	#8
mdibella Groupie Posts: 193 Karma: 1107 Join Date: Oct 2007 Device: Infinite Kindles, Occasional Sony's	EBooks are already available for download, if you know where to look. This is not new. Some of these sites have been around for years. My own feeling has always been, if I own the book in print format, I don't feel guilty about downloading it in ebook format for easier carrying-around. I would also point out that even though so many people have iPods (or other mp3 players), and even though pirated mp3 audiobooks can be found all over the net, publishers are still making money selling them. Why would ebooks be any different?

12-06-2007, 11:11 AM	#9
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	I voted "No" because as I see it, Kindle is seeking to make e-books so accessible that the average Joe will never look anywhere else for books. The demographic Amazon has targeted isn't really technically inclined enough to go plumbing the depths of the darknet. That's not a dig at Kindle users, just an observation of Amazon's marketing strategy. I do realize that a lot of the Kindle owners around here are quite tech-savvy, but I think that Amazon has positioned Kindle to appeal mostly to less tech-savvy folks than we tend get hereabouts. Because of that, I don't see e-book boot-leggers -- "book-leggers," if you will -- being very much affected by the Kindle. Sure they make mobi versions of their offerings, but if most of the folks using Kindles never even know they can go looking for them ....

12-06-2007, 11:24 AM	#11
joblack Wizard Posts: 1,745 Karma: 4382514 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Somewhere on earth Device: Onyx Boox Tab X	The iLiad and Sony Reader are supporting piracy even more. They support all the nice open formats. But the industry should shut up - they´re always complaining, but the bosses are driving in big cars ...

12-06-2007, 11:34 AM	#12
AlexC Connoisseur Posts: 58 Karma: 737 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Vancouver Device: Apple iPad; iRex iLiad	Likely it will increase illegal copying/sharing, but only because its release will have driven the number of dedicated devices in the hands of people up substantially. Some, when finding that their favorite book, e.g., Harry Potter, isn't available through legit channels will go off to their handy torrent search engine and grab a copy. This doesn't seem too earth shattering... just human nature.

12-06-2007, 11:54 AM	#13
Steven Lyle Jordan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 8,478 Karma: 5171130 Join Date: Jan 2006 Device: none	Tough question. On one hand, it's easy enough to get Amazon books for the Kindle, so piracy will not be supported by that. On the other hand, there are always the books Amazon doesn't carry (and make no mistake, there's plenty of those). If a Kindle reader is looking for such a book, they might find it on the darknet, thereby supporting piracy. And if Kindle does well in the market, there will be more customers potentially looking through that darknet material for hard-to-find books. Finally, Kindle owners might want to convert printed books they already own into Kindle books, a sort of "back-up" craze, which they (naturally) will expect they shouldn't have to pay for, and will get them free from darknet. I think the Kindle itself won't necessarily foster piracy... but the growing number of e-book users, coupled with the (lack of) variety of e-books available to Kindle owners, just might. FYI: I didn't vote, because my feelings are somewhere in the middle here.

12-06-2007, 12:01 PM	#15
Penforhire Wizard Posts: 2,230 Karma: 7145404 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle Voyage & iPhone 7+	I say yes but not because of any feature other than increased user base. There is nothing intrinsically easier about placing a pirated e-book on the Kindle versus, say, the Sony reader. However more people using readers means a greater number of pirates, assuming pirate-distribution is flat across all types of readers. (we need a pirate smiley)

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