If big 4 (6?) are so scared of Amazon why don't they ...

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

[...] accounted for well over half (about 6%) of books [...]

Are you sure?

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Are you sure?

Fixed it. Thanks.
60% in 2010, 35% in 2014.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by Jessica Lares

And money!

And technical expertise they are incapable of managing.

"Make it so they have to pay us money for every word they read, even if they're rereading it."

"The technology doesn't exist to do that."

"You're fired. Get me somebody who can do what I want!"

[theducks]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

No, bookstores are the middleman.

Depending on the terms of sale, would determine what the Bookstore is;

'Returnable:' they are the middleman, unsold books may be returned for some credit (if they meet all the terms and conditions). Stripping the book is in this program

'Non-Returnable:' they are the customer

Not all store inventory purchases qualify for the program.
Those belong to the store. That makes the store 'the customer' in my book .

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by theducks

Depending on the terms of sale, would determine what the Bookstore is;

'Returnable:' they are the middleman, unsold books may be returned for some credit (if they meet all the terms and conditions). Stripping the book is in this program

'Non-Returnable:' they are the customer

Not all store inventory purchases qualify for the program.
Those belong to the store. That makes the store 'the customer' in my book .

I... guess I see where you are coming from.

I think my point still more or less stands as-is though. The BWM publishers don't like dealing with people who like reading books, possibly because they aren't much good at connecting with readers.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I... guess I see where you are coming from.

I think my point still more or less stands as-is though. The BWM publishers don't like dealing with people who like reading books, possibly because they aren't much good at connecting with readers.

Few wholesalers are set up to deal directly with the end customer. Ever try to buy a chocolate bar directly from Hersey? You technically can, just like you can technically buy directly from many of the big publishers, but it's not how they make most of their money. The major publishers deal with people who like reading books all the time. Most people who go into the business love to read, that's how they got involved in the business in the first place.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Few wholesalers are set up to deal directly with the end customer. Ever try to buy a chocolate bar directly from Hersey? You technically can, just like you can technically buy directly from many of the big publishers, but it's not how they make most of their money. The major publishers deal with people who like reading books all the time. Most people who go into the business love to read, that's how they got involved in the business in the first place.

...

It used to be that publishers were involved with readers, running bookstores and book clubs and so on.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

...

It used to be that publishers were involved with readers, running bookstores and book clubs and so on.

There are still some small publishers out there that do that, but aren't we talking about the big 5? They are all part of large international corporations now. Hershey started out as a small candy store way back when. Why would you expect them to act like they did way back when? Some of the smaller subunits, such as Tor, one of the SF&F imprints of Macmillan (owned by the Georg von Holtzbrinck Publishing Group in Germany) are more proactive with regards to customer interaction.

It's really informative to trace each of the major publishers to their parent companies. Simon & Schuster is owned by CBS, Random House and Penguin are owned by a German company, Bertelsmann, HarperCollins is owned by News Corp. Hatchette is owned by Lagardere Group.

Certainly, one can make the argument that publishing consolidation has gone too far. That's my thought. I suspect that as the business drivers that pushed the publishing companies into consolidation go away, we will see a combination of the mega corporations shed their publishing companies and new publishing companies move to the forefront. However, I don't see where one would expect mega corporations act like small mom and pop book stores. The actually employees that do the book business (editors, people who choose which books to publish, etc) tend to be people who love books and literature. The suits who allocate resources and make the big picture decisions most likely look at books as just another widget.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by murg

Most, if not all, of the big publishers have their own websites where they will sell you ebooks.

They're just no good at it. And that's an understatement.

HarperCollins used to have their own ebook store. They closed it in 2010, with no transfer of purchased titles to another ebook store.

HarperCollins recently started up a new ebook store. I'm unlikely to become a customer!

[ApK]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

A winky means I am inviting you to "think about it". If I had meant to be teasing/joking I would use sticks-out-tongue.

Is this another of your rants about the perceived arbitrary meaning of words?

A middleman is only a valuable so-called-customer in context with the sales they make to real customers.

Customers are the people who a product is targeted at. BWM publishers make books. Books are targeted at consumers. Not bookstores, bookstores don't want books -- they want customers for books.

Bookstores cannot possibly be the customers for books.

A middleman may be a customer, but certainly not for the thing they are acting as a middleman for. Which is what matters here.

Um...no. On every point. But it's not anything I'm concerned about readers being misled on, so no matter.

[Kirtai]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

HarperCollins used to have their own ebook store. They closed it in 2010, with no transfer of purchased titles to another ebook store.

HarperCollins recently started up a new ebook store. I'm unlikely to become a customer!

Ditto. I'm just glad I'd already made the acquaintance of Alf & co back then.

[jscarbo]

For the most part, I think the major publishing houses are still clueless about adapting to the ebook revolution. I recently posted something on another forum that I bevieve is somewhat relevant to this discussion, in part commenting:

Thanks to the Good eReader blog, I saw this article this morning: http://goodereader.com/blog/digital-...ebook-terminal

The San Antonio airport has installed two kiosks which allow travelers obtain a free 24 hour membership and borrow up to three ebooks from the San Antonio Public Library for a seven day period, whether or not they are existing library members. The kiosks also serve as rapid charging stations. It's powered by Overdrive which should mean that it will work with a wide variety of devices, including smart phones, tablets, laptops, etc. I don't know if it will work with e-ink Kindles. San Antonio International is a fairly small Class C airport but if the idea catches on perhaps we'll see larger airport and libraries give something similar a try.

As a huge proponent of ebooks, this is the sort of innovative, forward thinking program I love to see and I hope the idea will foster further innovation. For example, what if Amazon, Scribd or Oyster did something similar in large airports such as JFK, Chicago, Atlanta, etc.?

Even more intriguing is the possibility that perhaps one or more of the Big Five publishers might see this as a way to promote their books. It's no secret that most of them haven't adjusted very well to the ebook revolution and are still struggling with how to market and promote ebooks without relying entirely on third party vendors such as Amazon. Perhaps their contracts with distributors might restrict their ability to do so but I've noticed that several publishers have begun selling ebooks through their own websites. Of course, some of the smaller publishers such as Baen Books have always done so but this is a new experiment for larger publishers who've always relied on third party distributors and retailers.

I see interesting possibilities here if major publishers start thinking towards the future and looking for ways to adapt to the new realities of book publishing, marketing and sales. It's hard for me to imagine a more "captive audience" than travelers spending hours on end in airports and aircraft and looking for ways to entertain themselves while they wait.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by jscarbo

It's no secret that most of them haven't adjusted very well to the ebook revolution and are still struggling with how to market and promote ebooks without relying entirely on third party vendors such as Amazon.

Have you seen this?
http://stratechery.com/2014/publishers-smiling-curve/

GigaOM summarized it as "Value in the media industry is moving to the edges and publishers are in the middle".

https://gigaom.com/2014/10/29/value-...in-the-middle/

If we look at the production chain for books, from author to reader, we find essentially the same "smiley curve". The highest value-add comes from the author on the upper left and from the retailers on the upper right.

Over the past few decades, the traditional distribution chain has consolidated into two major distributors and a handful of major retailers which likewise consolidated retail power. (This was was the publishers' doing, btw.)

And, more recently, a second distribution chain has emerged that runs parallel and independent to the traditional chain. In fact, a whole raft of new chains is emerging, all outside the control of the traditional publishers.

As the articles point out, retailers control the reader relationship and authors (with rare exceptions) control the brand and the supply of product. In the age of "always-in-print" the value of post-publishing services is increasing. With the emergence of the new distribution channels and the consolidation (and decline) of the traditional channels, the value of the services provided by the middlemen is declining.

The curve is flattening at the center and rising at the edges. Tradpub has bigger problems on their hands than how to split the take at one retailer. And the more time and effort they waste on that, the bigger their problems will get.

[pwalker8]

Some of you guys really do grossly underestimate the value that publisher provide authors and for that matter, readers. Perhaps another business model will pop up and someone will provide the same services that a publisher does, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to be Amazon. They don't even bother to do quality control on their own books database.

[DiapDealer]

Is it not equally possible that some are grossly over-estimating the value provided? Surely it's mostly a subjective perspective issue?