Dual firmware announcement

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by T_Frain_K

You know Harry, people around here almost make me laugh sometimes.
To moan about Bookeen, one must have been disappointed by Bookeen, which means he/she already owns a Bookeen device.

Now imagining Bookeen business model for the further future:
" Buy our product, and join the community to complain about us! "

*lol*

No, you misunderstand me.

What I meant was that you personally have a perception that Bookeen offer a poor customer experience. I would suggest to you that the fact that Bookeen have been in business for so many years, and are selling so many devices, indicates that the majority of Bookeen's customers do not share your viewpoint. I certainly do not share it myself. There are many of us here who are "repeat customers". I, for example, have bought four Bookeen devices (original CyBook, two Gen3's, and an Opus).

[T_Frain_K]

I was just joking.
Personally, I completly agree with you. The fact, that they are repeatedly out of stock means they are selling everything they can produce, which means from an economic point of view they are doing something right.
And as the world of sales judges itself by sale numbers, not the percentage of satisfied customers, one should not assume that Bookeen is going down.

Plus, I made the experience that most people seek to complain over problems, no matter how insignificant. But no one tries to express himself all over the internet just to tell the world the device is OK. Take my car for example (Toyota): Forums are full of reports on problems of every kind with the same brand, so one could think of a fragile car. Truth is, Toyota makes the most reliable cars, defects are rare.

The bottom line ( to cut a long story short ): I really would like to know, how many people owning a CyBook really are disappointed by bookeen. By that I mean including all those not posting in this or any other forum.

[HarryT]

Thanks for clarifying - this is an easy medium in which to misunderstand someone!

[T_Frain_K]

You´re telling me - I have a talent to unintentionally tread on toes via mail
You could ask my colleagues from my former work about that

The sake of the satirist, I suppose

[emellaich]

I'm not convinced. I am open to smaller companies. I did buy a Gen3, and I have an Astak pocket pro on order. I was satisfied with my Gen3, but don't feel they have kept up. Selling out doesn't tell me anything until I know what their order size is. If I only order one unit, then I can sell out pretty fast.

Their hit or miss on customer service and their problems with software could be symptoms of a company that is short on resources.

Right now, it looks to me like the market belongs to Sony, Amazon, and Apple (the iPod if not eventually the tablet). They have mind share and wide distribution. I know that we all know about Bookeen, Astak, BeBook, and Cooler, but they are not on the radar for the mass market. I know that Amazon is US only, but as soon as they announce European availability they will immediately move to number one in mind share.

In comparison, there were MP3 players for years, but Apple entered and created the mas market. The small players may grow if they have the right content and distribution deals. However, right now I see them as marginal players.

Without strong content and distribution I predict that these second tier players will disappear eventually.

[HarryT]

I really don't agree with you, I'm afraid. The iPod domination of the MP3 market has not killed off the other players in the market; alternate MP3 players proliferate - some because they are much cheaper than Apple; others, because they offer different features. I think the same will be true in the eBook Reader market.

[emellaich]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I really don't agree with you, I'm afraid. The iPod domination of the MP3 market has not killed off the other players in the market; alternate MP3 players proliferate - some because they are much cheaper than Apple; others, because they offer different features. I think the same will be true in the eBook Reader market.

How dare you disagree with my forecast .

Actually you do make a good point, and I must admit that my crystal ball has had some pretty bad misses through my life. In fact, I don't feel that strong about my current prediction. I would classify it more as thinking out loud than a firm prediction. But it does seem to me that some of the smaller players just aren't gaining the traction needed to succeed long term.

I wonder if our different viewpoints have to do with our locations? The Kindle is out in the US and Sony has distribution through one of our biggest book store chains and through Target, one of our biggest department stores. The Gen3 is really only available from the manufacturer web site in the US. Until Astak, there really wasn't a 'local' source for Jinke.

On the other hand, your situations is definitely different. No Amazon Kindle. And was the previous gen Sony available in Europe? Also, I hear you folks talk about the retailers who carry the Bookeen, and they don't mean anything to me. As a result, I might not really understand just how strong the Bookeen is in Europe. Likewise, I hear that Jinke is strong in Eastern Europe, but its hard for me to really understand the extent of that from here.

Bottom line is that we may be experiencing two quite different market dynamics.

[Snuffi]

Originally Posted by gerraldo

Sorry, but my native language is german and when I looked it up:
- from latin "proprietarius" = the owner
- the original meaning is therefor "owned by someone", "belonging to someone"
- juridically it's meaning is "copyrighted"

Plus an english dictionary translated:
- company-owned (firmeneigen)
- secured (gesichert)
- secret (geheim)

So when I wrote about PDF being proprietary, I was referring to "being copyrighted" and "owned by a company" (Adobe), which it surely is...

What you looked up is quite correct. PDF *WAS* a proprietory and *DID* belong to Adobe. But once something is standardized by the ISO it doesn't belong to one single company anymore in the sense that that company can change/withdraw/etc. that format on a whim. There's a panel for every decision on what changes are going to be integrated into the PDF standard and while Adobe certainly has a lot to say in that panel they are no longer able to do what they want.
They do still create enhancements and extensions for PDF which are not in the standard and therefore are not supported by all applications (signing, lots of form features, etc) therefore there *are* proprietory PDFs out there. But those you wouldn't be able to read on the (current) Cybook...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by emellaich

I wonder if our different viewpoints have to do with our locations? The Kindle is out in the US and Sony has distribution through one of our biggest book store chains and through Target, one of our biggest department stores. The Gen3 is really only available from the manufacturer web site in the US. Until Astak, there really wasn't a 'local' source for Jinke.

On the other hand, your situations is definitely different. No Amazon Kindle. And was the previous gen Sony available in Europe? Also, I hear you folks talk about the retailers who carry the Bookeen, and they don't mean anything to me. As a result, I might not really understand just how strong the Bookeen is in Europe. Likewise, I hear that Jinke is strong in Eastern Europe, but its hard for me to really understand the extent of that from here.

Bottom line is that we may be experiencing two quite different market dynamics.

I do think that the situation is different in Europe. Here, as you say, we have no Kindle, and hence no perception that anybody is "dominating" the market. Sony are the manufacturer that we are most "exposed" to - the Sony Reader is on sale at Sony stores (and in other places too) in several European countries - currently the UK, Ireland, France, Germany, and Austria, and is about to be launched in several other countries too. The smaller brands are definitely more wide-spread here, though, and Bookeen are probably the best-known of the smaller manufacturers.

[Snuffi]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Bookeen have been in the eBook Reader market longer than anyone else, and they seem to be selling every device that they can make, so clearly it's a business strategy which is doing them no harm.

Bookeen have sold mostly to business people in the past (i.e. before Gen3). That market is small compared with today's mass market. From what I heard from Bookeen they were pretty proud of their good service and support and were - apparently - highly regarded because of that.
I think that as long as they were a small company catering to a small niche they really had excellent support.

With the Gen3 they entered the mass market and I think that step into the next league hasn't been digested fully yet. They couldn't keep up their support standards anymore, a fact that they admitted to in their e-mails. One of the mails I received in January 2008 states just that: They said that they always used to have excellent support they were very proud of and that at the moment their restructuring wasn't keping up with the business increase but they promised to improve.

So, whether that strategy does them any harm still remains to be seen. The mass market is something different for them and the competition is a lot harder..

[Snuffi]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I do think that the situation is different in Europe. Here, as you say, we have no Kindle, and hence no perception that anybody is "dominating" the market. Sony are the manufacturer that we are most "exposed" to - the Sony Reader is on sale at Sony stores (and in other places too) in several European countries - currently the UK, Ireland, France, Germany, and Austria, and is about to be launched in several other countries too. The smaller brands are definitely more wide-spread here, though, and Bookeen are probably the best-known of the smaller manufacturers.

Sony has neglected the European market for too long. Seems that by now they have realized that they're leaving the palyfield to smaller companies and suddenly started to erupt into a frenzy of activities. Within a couple of months they struck deals with major book chains in the countries HarryT mentioned and there they sell their devices along with a coupon for several Euros worth of books (last I've seen it was 50 Euros in books). A strategy which instantly made them known to a majority of the populace (was reported a lot in the press) but must have cost them quite a bundle...

[HarryT]

Yes, when the PRS-505 was launched in the UK, the Sony "marketing machine" worked overtime. You couldn't switch on a news programme without seeing a Sony Reader on it .

[Terisa de morgan]

Here, in Spain, the most known is Parype (Spanish brand for Hanlin). Obviously, in dedicated forum you read about all of them, and you can find Kindle at the news, but I think the most known is Papyre because you can find it at stores (Sony isn't usually mentioned).

[HarryT]

Last I heard, the Sony Reader was due to be launched in Spain and Portugal in October, so I'm sure you'll be hearing a lot more about it then.

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

Here, in Spain, the most known is Parype (Spanish brand for Hanlin). Obviously, in dedicated forum you read about all of them, and you can find Kindle at the news, but I think the most known is Papyre because you can find it at stores (Sony isn't usually mentioned).

Being availible in stores is prety much why bookeen and sony rules the french market