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Old 04-23-2011, 12:25 PM   #316
Andrew H.
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Originally Posted by kjk View Post
Interesting debate in comments here over whether this means Amazon will support PDF/ePub, or if Overdrive(or Amazon) will provide Kindle format books: http://www.pigsgourdsandwikis.com/20....html#comments



I think its still unclear based on that statement.
I agree, that's not the clearest statement. But if you put all of the bits and pieces that they've told us together, i.e. - syncing across devices, annotations, Real Page Numbers(tm), the best conclusion seems to be that they will be sending the library patron a copy of the kindle book from their own servers. They couldn't do this if they simply converted the kindle to read epub.

And there's nothing magical about epub - Overdrive chose it because it was available to them (which .azw presumably was not). In the same manner that they chose .wma for audiobooks, despite the fact that this meant that ipods couldn't listen to their audiobooks.
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:56 PM   #317
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*I* think ePubs are magical. *sniff*
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Old 04-23-2011, 01:06 PM   #318
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I think if libraries see a sharp spike in wait times, they'll probably institute shorter loan periods for popular / new releases; say 7 days. I don't see them buying more copies because their budgets are already strained.
Libraries pay some sort of DRM certificate fee to OverDrive/Adobe each time a book is checked out, correct? Shorter loan periods mean that more Adobe DRM certificates will need to be issued each year, so that's not going to do anything to help the budget crunch.

Let's not forget that libraries also have the option to not make any changes: "OK, pre-Amazon Kindle, our yearly budget would allow 26 people to checkout this ebook for 14 days. And, post-Amazon Kindle... yup, budget is exactly the same. 26 people can read this book each year."
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Old 04-23-2011, 01:08 PM   #319
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*I* think ePubs are magical. *sniff*
eHugs!
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Old 04-23-2011, 04:22 PM   #320
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*I* think ePubs are magical. *sniff*
I do too... it's fun scanning an old book and constructing an ePub out of it with Sigil. I'm preserving some of my old out-of-print and not popular enough to see ebook form soon paperbacks and hardcovers.
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Old 04-23-2011, 06:05 PM   #321
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It's not 26 checkouts per year, it's 26 checkouts per book... if everyone only kept it for a week then the library would have to re-buy after 6 months...


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Originally Posted by stickybuns View Post
Libraries pay some sort of DRM certificate fee to OverDrive/Adobe each time a book is checked out, correct? Shorter loan periods mean that more Adobe DRM certificates will need to be issued each year, so that's not going to do anything to help the budget crunch.

Let's not forget that libraries also have the option to not make any changes: "OK, pre-Amazon Kindle, our yearly budget would allow 26 people to checkout this ebook for 14 days. And, post-Amazon Kindle... yup, budget is exactly the same. 26 people can read this book each year."
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Old 04-23-2011, 06:20 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by SensualPoet View Post
There is also a crystal clear entry in the Overdrive Help - FAQ, which I assume is generic and not specific to Toronto Public Library, with the title: "Borrowing Help ... Can I return items early?" which includes click-by-click instructions on how to accomplish this. Yes, this feature could be more prominent; but curious customers can easily find this info.
Most people won't read the FAQ when they think they know what to do. This needs to be right there on the front page in a way that people will see so they can then go read the FAQ.
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Old 04-23-2011, 06:27 PM   #323
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You've said this in this thread before. What do you base that on? I would think most people do know they can return it early, it's right there in the same menu as when you delete an item.
I think a lot of people don't see it. I know it's there, but a lot of people don't know it's there. So they don't use it.
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Old 04-23-2011, 06:30 PM   #324
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It's not 26 checkouts per year, it's 26 checkouts per book... if everyone only kept it for a week then the library would have to re-buy after 6 months...
Yes, that's my point. The library will need to budget for twice the number of checkouts in a year.

If a library has one book available for checkout and the check out period is for 2 weeks/14 days, that equals 26 checkouts in a year. If they change the checkout period to 1 week, that equals 52 checkouts in a year.

Yes, there are folks who return their books early, but just as a baseline for calculating expenditures, the library needs to presume that the average customer will use the full checkout time allowed ("It gets returned/deleted automatically; why should I have to do anything?").

----

Minor change of topic. My local library has a sign that says, "Pay your library fines, so we can buy more books!" Since ebooks are automatically returned, there's no such thing as fines. What would you (general you, not just elcreative) think of a library that charged a small fee for the longer checkout times? Or, allowed X ebooks per year before charging?
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Old 04-23-2011, 06:57 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by stickybuns
What would you (general you, not just elcreative) think of a library that charged a small fee for the longer checkout times? Or, allowed X ebooks per year before charging?
Actually, I think it's an excellent idea. But instead charging for longer checkout times, I say you get charged if you choose to rely on the ungraceful, "automatic" return. You can avoid that fee by properly "returning" the ebook when you're done with it--however many mouse clicks that might entail.
That may encourage early returns as well as generate a tiny amount of revenue.

I'm not sure about charging for each subsequent checkout after X number of ebooks checked out per year. What about a general limit? X number of ebooks per year is all you're allowed to check out. After that, donations are accepted to negate that limit.
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Old 04-23-2011, 07:11 PM   #326
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I'm in favor of being able to accept a library fine to keep a book a bit longer - no one wants to get to the last page of their book only to find that OOPS GONE and you're now #318 on the waiting list.

On the other hand, instituting the fine for people who don't return the book is, in my opinion, needlessly prohibitive. If I finish my library book on my Overdrive app on the day its due, I'm not going to rush home to tether myself to ADE so that I can return the thing. Once again, new formats do not have to inherit the flaws of the old formats - automatic returns is why ebooks are BETTER than paperbacks.

I also don't much like a X-checkouts-per-year theme. It's not in keeping with libraries in general.

If you feel like libraries deserve more money, you can always cut them a check or lobby for higher taxes in your area to support them.
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Old 04-23-2011, 07:37 PM   #327
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If you feel like libraries deserve more money, you can always cut them a check or lobby for higher taxes in your area to support them.
I already give my library money. My idea was to pry some from other people who may not.

I wouldn't think "returning a book" would be overly taxing. It's not like you have to get dressed, put gas in the car and drive to your local branch and put it in the book drop.
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Old 04-23-2011, 08:20 PM   #328
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I am amazed at the amount of calculations here based on totally unknowable information.

Does anyone here actually have first hand knowledge of how much Overdrive charges libraries for ebooks?

Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of how much Adobe charges Overdrive to use/licenses it's encryption?

I'd be interested to know how it actually works before I try to figure out how much it's all going to cost my local library.

BOb
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Old 04-23-2011, 08:24 PM   #329
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Actually, I think it's an excellent idea. But instead charging for longer checkout times, I say you get charged if you choose to rely on the ungraceful, "automatic" return. You can avoid that fee by properly "returning" the ebook when you're done with it--however many mouse clicks that might entail.
That may encourage early returns as well as generate a tiny amount of revenue.

I'm not sure about charging for each subsequent checkout after X number of ebooks checked out per year. What about a general limit? X number of ebooks per year is all you're allowed to check out. After that, donations are accepted to negate that limit.

Why shoehorn ebooks into archaic pbook methodologies?

Try this one on for size, allow for unlimited library downloading while only charging for books that are actually read. The onus would be on the patron to click each book title that they have read and then their account would be charged accordingly. Those who do check out books but do not click as read an algorithmically generated number of times, would be an indicator that they are not contributing to the financial stability of the library and would be put onto a list of dangerous patrons, perhaps placed into a separate but equal ebook system, where you would have to deal with things like holds.
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Old 04-23-2011, 08:26 PM   #330
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I'm in favor of being able to accept a library fine to keep a book a bit longer - no one wants to get to the last page of their book only to find that OOPS GONE and you're now #318 on the waiting list.

On the other hand, instituting the fine for people who don't return the book is, in my opinion, needlessly prohibitive. If I finish my library book on my Overdrive app on the day its due, I'm not going to rush home to tether myself to ADE so that I can return the thing. Once again, new formats do not have to inherit the flaws of the old formats - automatic returns is why ebooks are BETTER than paperbacks.

I also don't much like a X-checkouts-per-year theme. It's not in keeping with libraries in general.

If you feel like libraries deserve more money, you can always cut them a check or lobby for higher taxes in your area to support them.
When I was growing up, the local library charged $0.25 to check out videos. Not sure if many libraries do that now.
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